Je constate que des deux bords l’idée de fierté est récurrente, mais il semble avoir un sens qui peut être plus négatif du côté des étudiants de Bowdoin.
Je me demande pourquoi certains parlent de stupidité quand il s’agit de patriotisme? Qu’est ce qui leur vient à l’esprit? Personnellement je considère que c’est bénéfique dans le sens où ça permet un sentiment d’appartenance à un pays, et l’idée de défendre ce pays dans la diversité culturelle dont chacun de nous est issu.

Xaleis–
Cette question est très interessante. En général, je pense que d’être partiotique n’est pas stupide. La majorité des gens aux États-Unis n’associe pas stupidité à patriotisme. Mais, il reste des personnes aussi qui pense c’est stupide d’aimer notre pays. Moi, je pense qu’il faut avoir le patriotisme. On peut n’être pas d’accord avec le gouvernement où les gens haineux, mais il faut être patriotique si on veut voir un changement dans notre culture.

It definitely seems true that a higher percentage of people from Bowdoin have a more negative, or at least more neutral, perception of patriotism. This may be due to the fact that, many times in the United States, people having an extreme sense of patriotism and pride in their country leads to an apathetic mentality when it comes to other countries and peoples – like immigrants, for example. Furthermore, individuals and groups often have different ideas of what it means to be patriotic, and this has been a large cause of divisiveness in the United States. However, I do not believe that patriotism, itself, is bad, but perhaps seeing and experiencing its sometimes negative impacts has influenced my understanding of it. I do wonder why there is such a significant difference in how the Bowdoin and Toulouse students perceive patriotism. In France, is there just generally a sense of patriotism in a reasonable manner, and not as much extreme, almost xenophobic, expressions of patriotism?

The students in Toulouse seem much more indebted to their nation than we are. In America, patriotism and support for one’s country often gets associated with extremism and protectionism—to the point where having a love of America leads to the exclusion of other people (immigrants and socially marginalized racial groups, for the most part).

Perhaps the students from Toulouse feel the need to hold on tightly to their national values and traditions because of the scale of the country. Because France is much smaller than the US, it is much more easily dominated.

Do you feel you must support your nation even when it is making mistakes? Would you support France even if you didn’t like its political direction and popular culture? Do you think patriotism could mean defending old values in place new ones? Is it possible to be critical of a nation (so as to change it when necessary), but also love it as the place to which you belong?

Both Xaleis and chastin2 question why the Bowdoin students speak negatively about patriotism. I agree with davidf and kayelizabeth’s assessment that many people in the US take the concept of patriotism to an extreme and use it to promote their own, sometimes twisted ideals. The French have a different history than the Americans, and a different relationship with their country, I think. France is a smaller, older country, with a longer history and a population that is unified by that history. Today, the French are very familiar with the concept of “liberté, égalité, fraternité” because it is such an essential part of their culture and who they are as a nation. From the revolutionaries fighting at the barricades to overthrow an unjust monarchy (several times!), to the French Resistance fighters who continued to defy the enemy even as the Nazis marched through the Arc de Triomphe, the French have a culture of resistance that brings them together.

What do the Americans have? We have a revolution that took place so long ago that it is, to many people, only a chapter in our history books. Except for Pearl Harbor September 11, we have never experienced an attack by a foreign power on American soil (unless you count the Russians meddling in our elections. We have a history of immigrants who have contributed to our diverse culture, but we also have a history of subjugation and exploitation of our people, genocide of the native Americans, enslavement of Africans…

As davidf says, in our diverse American culture, patriotism means different things to different people. Patriotism in this context is not a simple concept. When I think of patriotism, I think of the song “America the Beautiful” which speaks of the beauty and abundance of our land - not “The Star-Spangled Banner” which speaks of war and bombs. Is the concept of patriotism simpler in the French culture? Does the concept of “liberty, equality, brotherhood” sum it up for most French?

I think it is really interesting that one Bowdoin student defined patriotism as loyalty to the people of a country rather than the government. Since a lot of the Toulouse students defined patriotism as loving one’s country, is a country in your opinion created by the people or by the government? To which does patriotism apply?

Many Toulouse students defined patriotism being an active citizen and taking active part in political processes such as voting, being bipartisan, etc… In the United States, patriotism has become a political tool especially after 9/11 and I saw Marine Le Pen using it this way in the past election. Is patriotism innately political in your opinion or has it been inappropriately used in this way?