Que de différences dans nos réactions! Je suis surpris par le nombre d'expressions comme "it's fine" ou "it's OK"; cela ne semble pas vous poser de problème de manière générale, alors que pour nous, c'est plus mitigé; d'abord, c'est très rare en France que l'on vous parle en utilisant votre prénom, c'est réserver aux gens qui vous connaissent bien!

Oui c'est vrai que c'est rare que l'on s'adresse à nous en disant notre prénom! Et je trouve que c'est plutôt un manque de respect si c'est une personne que l'on ne connait pas ou dans ce cas ci un employé de banque!

yes. this is indeed very interesting! in france, people don't usually address by first names? i even talk to my professor using his/her first names! Using family names makes me feel overly formal (when I talk to my supervisors or professors, i feel that the conversation can't reach a deeper/ more meaningful level if you keep using first names!)

At the bank, i guess it's kind of a procedure to address by family names? by if they call me by my family names, I will feel old. 

En France, nous apellons toujours nos professeurs par leur nom de famille c'est un signe de respect ici. Après tout dépend de l'éducation que nous avons reçu, si les normes aux états Unis sont comme ça, ça me parait normal.

Et vis à vis des professeurs, ça ne me choque pas trop car c'est vrai que l'on passe beaucoup de temps avec eux donc à la fin on les connait, alors qu'un employé de banque normalement on le voit rarement donc les relations sont moins intimes et le fait d'apeller quelqu'un par son nom de famille permet de mettre une certaine distance entre les deux personnes.

Je pense qu'au Etats Unis vous allez plus facilement les uns vers les autres, je me trompe ?

En france on utilise ' vous ' quand on ne connait pas, alors qu'en anglais il n'y a pas de différence, on utilise uniquement 'you'

Linh, je sui d'accord avec toi : ça rend les choses beaucoup plus formelles de s'adresser aux gens par leur nom de famille. Forcément avec un banquier qui ne nous connait pas et dont nous sommes client, c'est une marque de respect de nous appeler par le nom de famille.

En ce qui concerne les professeurs, c'est vrai que j'ai ressenti qu'une distance s'était installée lorsque j'ai dû les appeler par leur nom de famille à partir du lycée. Je trouvais moins facile de poser des questions, de m'adresser à eux.

En France, on nous appelle par notre nom de famille à partir de 17-18 ans. A la banque et ailleurs, c'est une sorte de "procédure" en effet!

C'est vrai que nous appelons nos profs par leur noms Madame X ou Monsieur Y, c'est trés formel. Nous nous limitons même à Madame ! ou Monsieur ! Certains nous tutoient  :) ce qui ne me dérange pas du tout. 

Quand je travaillais l'année dernière, je m'adressais à ma patronne par son prénom néanmoins, je continuais à la vouvoyer. Nous n'avions que des liens professionnels pourtant et le respect était là des 2 cotés.

Je trouve que nous appeler par nos noms nous vieillis comme dis Linh. Surtout pour nous les filles parce qu'on général c'est à notre mère qu'on s'adresse ainsi.

Au fait, nous nous adressons les uns aux autres par nos prénoms !!!! :) Et ça ne dérange personne à ce que je vois ! Non ?

Nous ne nous connaisons pas plus que ça et nous sommes dans un cadre scolaire (qui n'est pas celui de la banque mais bon) ce qui reste qu'en même encadré.

Les français comme les américains ne dirait pas forcément quelque chose à la personne qui les adresse par leur prénom. Cependant, on sent chez les français un énervement interne énorme alors que les américains restent très calmes.

En France, on est habitué à être vouvoyé par quasiment toutes les personnes qui ne sont ni des amis, ni de la famille. Du coup, si quelqu'un que je ne connais pas me tutoie, je le remarquerais forcément.

Cependant, y a-t-il une réelle utilité au vouvoiement? Le respect peut toujours exister sans vouvoiement, non?

Cela ne me viendrait pas à l'idée d'appeler mes profs par leur prénom; en France, je pense que c'est même très mal vu car on dit que les profs et les élèves doivent garder leurs distances, sinon, il n'y a plus d'autorité, et si les liens sont trop proches, le prof ne nous notera pas comme s'il notaide manière anonyme (je ne suis pas certain que cela change la donne). J'ai entendu des gens dire que quand le meître d'école se fait appeler par son prénom, c'est démagogique!!!

Et pour vous?

Je serais très en colère que le banquier m'appelle par mon prénom, on n'a pas gardé les vaches ensemble!

Sinon, je suis assez d'accord avec Yoan sur ce qu'il dit sur les profs.

Mon banquier est un ami, alors, je ne sais pas que répondre...

I think the reaction is dependent on the culture of the country you are in. My response was nothing because Americans tend to be informal so that wouldn't bother me. I know the person was not trying to be rude or impolite. However, if that happened to me in my home country, I would think that the behaviour was inappropriate because that is not the norm and would say something.

Americans are generally more informal than other cultures. And it is probably that is even part of the language. The fact that you can call someone "vous" or "tu" in french whereas in english you only have "you" says a lot about how hierarchical a culture is. I've heard some cultures have even more versions of "you" depending on the level of respect.

For me, it's still weird to call a professor by his/her first name. Many of my professors actually ask to be called by their first name on the first day of classes. And it goes beyond just calling a person by first name. When you write an email in english you would be much more direct and informal than when you write one in french or spanish. Same thing when you're talking on the phone. If you call customer service, they will be way more informal in their answer and conversation than they would be in other countries.

Yoan, personnellement durant toute ma scolarité (primaire et secondaire) avant l'IUT j'ai toujours appelé mes professeurs par leur prénom et nous nous tutoyions mutuellement. Le respect entre professeurs et élèves était là et l'autorité des professeurs aussi. Je trouve le mot démagogique un peu fort. De plus, j'ai l'impréssion qu'en école primaire il est très courant d'appeler le maître par son prénom.

Concernant les notes, j'ai eu à peu près les mêmes notes pendant l'année qu'au bac. D'ailleurs, j'ai lu dans le palmarès Figaro 2010 que mon lycée avait les meilleurs résultat au bac dans l'académie de Rennes et qu'il était 2ème au niveau national.

C'est vrai que j'étais dans une petite structure et je pense que ça facilite la proximité entre les élèves et les professeurs.

Wow, this discussion is very interesting! Agreed, Americans tend to be generally more informal, but I think it is amazing that even on first name basis, the environment can still maintain its formality so I am guessing it has something to do with comfort (ie maybe being called by one's first name here would make it more comfortable for them to interact with you) or maybe, they just don't recognize any association of respect with being called by last names (And using titles)?

Just like most international students, I feel weird calling profs by their first names but where I am from, unless one was old (or in some leadership/authorative position), being addressed by one's last name was an indication that they were in trouble or something (tragically) serious was about to be discussed. I wonder if anyone can relate to this?

This is just a facet of our cultural differences. I think Lina mentioned a good point about the lack of a formal and informal choice of pronouns and verb conjugations (vous/tu) in English. Of course, there are situations when formality is used, but in this story about the bank I think I would not be very surprised. I have a Greek friend who shares very similar feelings as expressed by the French students about how people in America are "always your friend". It is difficult for him to be comfortable with people who always act so casually.

It is funny to me, because I think about "fraternite" and "egalite", and to me that indicates that first names can be used!

It's certainly understandable that the French find this rather strange and even unsuitable because they have the distinction between "tu" and "vous" like many other Romance speaking peoples. Americans on the other hand, we don't make that distinction, at least in addressing people. This is why many other cultures find us terribly disrespectful.

Though, I want to defend the practice of using the first name as opposed to Mr./Mrs. + last name. The whole point of it is to establish rapport with the customer, I feel it is mostly a psychological thing. It is a psychological trend that if you treat people who you've just only met as if they were friends, that is, if you use their first name, are physically open to them (embrace them, pat them on their shoulders, etc.), etc., they will see you as a friend as well. The reason for doing this is that, especially in the business sector, you'll instill immediate trust in your customer and they'll be more likely to come back for your services.

We like the close feel of society, when people are familiar with each other. I almost feel like the distance that people put between each other demonstrates a lack of trust, as if they were hiding something, or weren't friendly and were unwilling to skip formalities to enjoy each other's company.

It's very prevalent in American society. When people have name tags at certain events, like fairs, or even in business settings, name tags often only show the first name (and occaisionally the last name, or their title plus their last name).

Another point I want to make is that familiarity does not necessarily mean lack of respect (this is particularly directed @Josephine). Though English is not the most colorful language in terms of linguistic registers (compare with Japanese or Korean where verb forms change according to the situation at hand, indicating many levels of respect/politeness, far beyond using "tu" and "vous"), there is simply a manner of speaking which can evoke a feeling of respect. A more respectful way of talking obviously doesn't employ swears and more common constructions like "I want you to do this" in the indicative mood. In English, respect and politeness are often attributed to making super convulated sentences full of empty filler words and the subjunctive/conditional mood with less commonplace vocabulary, "I would like it if you did this" or "I would prefer that you consider doing this".

As for professors, if I've met face to face with a professor, have been introduced to them with their first name (which is always the case, no one introduces themself as "Mr. (last name here)"), then I'll feel comfortable addressing them by their first name.

I agree with Lina, the English language in general does not have many formalities. I speak Korean as well, and learning French of course, but it amazes me that the English language does not incorporate formalities to the same extent.

I thought that the response of a French student that calling one by the first name establishses solidarity because this seems to be a constant theme within the forums. There is a sense of solidarity and kinship in society.

I personally, like many other American student's responses, would not be offended if someone called me by my first name, it's quite common. But out of politeness, I think in the U.S. people do address with Miss/Ms./Mrs./Mr. XXX to strangers; this depends on the situation in context. For example a store employee would not call you by your first name, it would simply be rude.

Anton, good point about the calling the professor with his/her first name. I always found it interesting that we didn't start calling teachers by their first name in elementary/middle/high school, but we do in college. What do you think?

Actually, I found that students in my high school already had a more equal relationship with (some) teachers, and would address teachers they knew well by first name or even nicknames! My high school chemistry teacher was affectionately nicknamed Crodog and would sing us songs about chemistry that he composed. They were pretty popular with us students and he held a yearly concert. Not a formal student teacher relationship! There were several teachers like that in the school that everyone thought were "cool" and would interact with informally. Also, teachers acted as "advisers" to clubs, like a math club or a chemistry club or a debate club etc, and in this capacity their interaction with the students was always friendly. The club would meet in their classrooms after school and people would relax and talk freely.

"Cependant, y a-t-il une réelle utilité au vouvoiement? Le respect peut toujours exister sans vouvoiement, non?"

Josephine, you brought up a really interesting point, but I might argue that the language of a culture may reflect the importance of respect in that culture. I would even go as far as to say that American culture is not a very respectful one (especially if you check out the other responses to situations...Americans can be rude on call). I've always felt slightly uneasy in many situations where people much older than me would try to encourage friendly terms (I was born into a Korean household). I feel much more natural being formal with who I would call "superiors". However, the notion of superiors is not a likeable one in the United States. Furthermore, since we've talked about individualism in other forums, Americans as a general population do seem to give off an air of self-centeredness and at times, entitlement, whereas the French seem more concerned about the world around them, and thus perhaps, the comfort levels of others. These conditions have established the norms of the French being socially conscious about formalities and Americans not. Ironically, this leads to Americans being apathetic about how OTHER people address them since no one seems to pay attention to that stuff anyway while the French are surprised or upset when the rules of social interaction are broken.

Anyway, point is, although respect is important in all cultures, its emphasis can be seen in all of the ways it permeates a culture, including language. In the case of the French and Americans, I believe the French place greater value on respecting others (consistently) while the Americans are used to being "disrespected" and doing the same to others, and it shows in the language.

@Jamie, but isn't it strange that the same is not expected of you to a store employee? Maybe it's just me, but I feel that formality should be equal on both sides, like "si je vous vouvoie, vous me vouvoyez" (this is obviously not a rule nor is it necessarily true, I'm just saying it's a personal belief of mine). I once was having lunch and the manager was working the cashier and checked my student id, and addressed me by my first name. Consequently, I looked at her name tag and thanked her using her first name, which may have been a faux pas on my part, but for some reason, I didn't feel obligated to maintain her higher status/position by addressing her with her title and her last name.

Strangely enough, Jamie, I did in fact wonder why we were taught as children in elementary/middle/high school to address teachers formally. To answer that, I'm going to first respond to Irina's comment about high school students and teachers. I feel the informality is part of just naturally growing closer to a teacher, getting to know them better, through activities. Sometimes, it may just be the teacher, who initiates the informality. But for most cases, and especially for elementary and middle school, you are supposed to address your teachers with their title and last name. Perhaps it's to establish that we, as children, are not socially equal to a full-fledged adult. The formal address imparts us with some basic sense of respect/formality. Because if we were taught at a young age to just call everyone by their first names, we'd probably come off even ruder than we already are.

Also, when you reach high school and college, I feel the emphasis on the student is to establish leadership and some sense of a transition into adulthood, independence, and equality with other adults. It's supposed to make you feel like you're a part of the greater adult world, you are an equal, you can voice your opinion as an adult, pursue an idea as an adult.

@Johanna, what do you mean that we are used to being "disrespected"? Do you mean that it is a natural thing for us, a social norm? Or are you trying to relate our social norm/language with how we deal with the world? I was interpreting your comment as if history has shown that America has been disrespected or disregarded and America has done the same to others.

Anton, I meant the term "disrespected" in this case as if someone was using your first name when it's expected to use a title and last name. But it's in quotes...because in America it's not really disrespect at all. It's just normal. There is no culture of respect (that doesn't mean there isn't respect within the culture though).

Johanna,

Je voudrais t'expliquer un peu plus mon point de vue sur le vouvoiement. Je suis néerlandaise et nous avons également le vouvoiement dans notre langue. Cependant, on ne l'utilise que très peu. Souvent, simplement pour s'addresser à une personne importante (comme un ministre) à qui on veut démontrer notre respect dès la première phrase. Pourtant, je trouve que, même sans utiliser le vouvoiement alors qu'il existe, le respect entre inconnus est beaucoup plus fort aux Pays-bas qu'en France. Le vouvoiement ne fait pas tout, d'ou ma question de si il est vraiment nécessaire.

Comme tu sembles plus habituée à la culture Coréenne, j'imagine que pour toi le vouvoiement n'est pas si exagéré que ça! Tu peux m'en dire un peu plus sur les formes de respect que tu connais? Est-ce que c'est comme dans beaucoup de pays asiatiques où il y a une façon différente de s'adresser à chaque catégorie de personnes? Comment est-ce que tu fais le lien entre ta culture d'origine et la culture américaine? Y a-t-il des choses qui te choquent encore?

Pour Lina:

The fact that you can call someone "vous" or "tu" in french whereas in english you only have "you" says a lot about how hierarchical a culture is.

Ta phrase est intéresante car elle revient sur le côté hiérarchisé des relations en France, sur l'organisation de notre société et de notre système éducatif qui sont souvent basés sur des codes de hierarchie.

Sterenn, où étais-tu en classe avant? Ce que tu dis est assez inhabituel, est-ce que ton école était une école DIWAN ou Fresnais?

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Il se peut que le banquier nous ait tutoyé vu notre jeune âge ! Parce que moi je le fais quand je m'adresse à un enfants, un ados : quelqu'un de plus jeune que moi. Je ne sais pas si c'est également votre cas. Par contre, je m'adresse à une personne plus âgée ou du même âge que moi par "vous".

Après d'où nous vient cette distinction en français ? Depuis l'époque des rois, voir même de l'empire romain certainement, où je pense qu'on s'adressait aux rois, aux personnes d'un rang supérieur au notre et pour laquelle on exprimait du respect par "vous". Je pense également que dans les pays où la colonisation française s'est faite, cette distinction s'est introduite dans leur langue comme le néerlandais (pour plus de précisions je renvois à ce qu'a écris Joséphine.

Je crois aussi qu'en portugais, en espagnol, en italien ... la marque de politesse se fait par le "il" et non le "vous".

Rectifications à apporter à mon précédent message : "cette distinction s'est introduite dans leur langue comme en Algérie ou en Inde. Dites moi si je me trompes car se sont justes mes suppositions.

Par contre pour le néerlandais, j'avais lu un jour qu'elle avait été introduite car la bourgeoisie aimait cette marque de politesse. Et Joséphine en parle un peu plus haut. Encore une fois dites moi si je me trompe. 

J'ai trouvé le forum ci-dessous très interressant : http://forum.lokanova.net/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=2905