Bonjour, 

Je voudrais savoir ce que vous entendez par banlieues. Est ce que se sont des banlieues du type desperate housewives? Car vos commentaires laissent le penser. Avez vous des banlieues comme nous les entendons, c'est à dire avec de la délinquance, des guettos et un pourcentage d'immigration très élevé?? et où sont-elles situées dans vos villes?

Fabien Tordjman

I think the difference in reaction results in the completely different implications of these two words.  In America, you're right that desperate housewives presents a sort of exaggerated stereotype of what we mean by "suburbs".  The word "suburb" implies not just any neighborhood, but a peaceful, quiet, and often wealthier neighborhood that is somewhat removed from any big cities. People talk about moving to the suburbs when starting a family so that they can perhaps live in a bigger house, and can be in a more peaceful and pleasant place.

I think it's interesting that these two words translate to each other when they could be said not to even have the same meaning, since their connotations are so different.

Hey Fabien,

I was also surprised by the disparity in how we view the suburb and how the French view it. I find it funny that you brought up Desperate Housewives, and that is the view of the American suburb that perhaps the rest of the world has.

In general, the suburb in the United States is a place not too far away from the city. It is mostly characterized by middle-class households, friendly neighbors, private houses, and private yards. For many people, the suburb is the optimal place to raise a family, as it is removed from the troubles of city life, and allows for privacy and a sense of community. Overall, it is viewed very positively. There are, of course, poorer suburbs and richer suburbs, and the reality is that not all suburbs are nice places to raise a family. The stereotype, however, is that of the rich suburb. I think this stereotype was originated around the 1950s-1960s, and has carried on today.

What you would call a "ghetto" for us is normally part of the city. Immigrants stereotypically settled in poor neighborhoods within the inner city. In New York City, for example, some areas are known to be overwhelmingly immigrant neighborhoods. The reason is that housing in the city is often cheaper for immigrants, whereas living in the suburbs is often very expensive.

I'd like the French view on suburbs. I'd imagine that for the French it is switched, since many of the words associated with suburbs had negative connotations. Are there many riots, and a high level of immigration, in the French suburbs? Do the rich normally live within the city, and the poor outside?

I think a lot of what is considered a suburb in the United States has been covered.  It is a place outside of the city that is not riddled with drugs and violence, which is what we associate with large cities.  Suburbs are places where middle class families decide to raise families in attempt to keep their children out of trouble because there are usually better schools, cleaner parks, and just an all around more quite atmosphere.

I love the fact that you think of Desperate Houswives when you think of US suburbs...yes that show depicts how many of the richer suburbs appear but I assure you the women that live in the suburbs do not always act like that.

Just like Yotam previously stated, most Immigrants live in the cities, because that is where cheaper housing is food, and they can be with people they know and are comfortable with.

So, in France why is it that all Immigrants move into suburbs? Is it because it is cheap, or is it because people they know have already settled there? Also, I just happend to stumble on the "banlieue" wikipedia page and it referred to a few richer suburbs? Do more middle class French people live there?

En fait les banlieus sont le plus généralement là où les villes ont construit des cités HLM, des logements sociaux,etc... car le centre était déjà plein. Les logements sont donc peu chères et c'est pourquoi on y trouve beaucoup d'immigrés (car beaucoup d'immigrés ont un faible niveau de vie en France). Certaines de ces banlieus sont très violentes, et en général la jeunesse de banlieu est en désaccord avec le gouvernement. C'est d'ailleurs devenu un mot que l'on associe plus à un type de lieu de vie qu'a un position géographique par rapport au centre ville. On peut très bien considéré que quelqu'un vient de la banlieu alors qu'il habite dans des immeubles qui ne sont pas en périphérie. Nos banlieus n'ont donc strictement rien à voir avec les votres!

Par contre il faut faire attention à ne pas tomber dans le cliché, les banlieus ne sont pas des zones dangereuses remplis de pauvres. C'est vrai que la violence est souvent présente mais énormément de banlieu sont sensiblement calme, le niveau de vie n'y est pas élevé mais il y fait bon vivre.

So a really interessting question came up today. Why do the French like living in the city? Is it because the city is historical or they have better facilities, better restaurants? I am really curious to know why you prefer to live in cities as opposed to the outskirts. For example, as an American I would want to live in the suburbs because it is quiter and I would be able to have a larger home.

Thanks Alain for the insight, but why do the younger people have problems with the government? Do you believe the police target ethnic youth that live in the French suburbs?

Je ne suis pas d'accord avec Alain.

Les banlieue c'est avant tout des petites villes à proximité d'une grande ville, avec principalement des habitations. Et c'est la que vivent la plupart des gens ...

Je dirai donc que nos banlieues sont les mêmes que les votres, on y trouve de tout, riches pauvres jeunes vieux etc, il y a des banlieux riches.

Par contre, et c'est surement à cause des médias, quand on pense au mot "banlieue", on s'imagine en 1er ce qu'on pourrait appeler plus justement des "cités" qui correspondent à la description d'Alain.

Les "cités" représentent au maximum 5% (estimation personnelle) des banlieues... mais on les associe facilement aux "cités" à cause des médias qui en parlent régulièrement.

Alain, you mentioned that the center of the city is nearly full. In order to expand the living space, are there many constructions going on?

A side question: what transportaion do people usually take to go to work? Is there always bad traffic jam in the early morning and late afternoon?

I found it surprising that the perceptions of the city and the suburbs are flipped in American and French cultures.  What does this entail for housing conditions? Are their large houses in the city or do people live in apartments? Also, are there houses at all in the suburbs? From the impression I get from the posts above, the suburbs are full with apartment buildings which seems slightly odd to me outside of the city.

Pour YE : Oui, il y a beaucoup de construction autour des villes mais je pense que c'est partout pareil.Deplus comme il n'y a pas beaucoup de place ils construisent des immeubles. 

Le moyen de transport le plus utilisé dans les grandes villes est le Metro ou le tramway.Ceux qui y vont en voiture viennent des banlieues principalement, il y a donc des heures à éviter si on a pas envie d'être pris dans un bouchon (traffic jam). 

Pour Michael:

   Il ne faut pas tout confondre , comme la dit Pierre, Alain parle d'une petite partie des Banlieues appelée "les cités".

   Les conditions de vie sont bonnes car il n'y a pas de pollution et il y a beaucoup de verdure contrairement à la ville. On peut donc y faire du vélo, du bateau sur les lacs et la seine (pour l'exemple de la banlieue de paris).

   Dans les grandes villes comme Paris il y a principalement des immeubles car les prix sont élevés par contre en banlieue, on trouve des grandes maisons avec de grands jardins, des piscines.Il n'y a pas que la pauvreté et la violence comme le souligne Alain. Les banlieues permettent d'avoir de la verdure proche de la ville où la plupart des gens travaillent la journée.

Par contre ce qu'il y a de différent chez vous c'est le nombre de résidences avec des maisons qui se ressemblent beaucoup, Je suis allé à Altanta et je n'ai vu que cela...

En France il y a beaucoup de maisons qui ont une histoire et elles sont pour la plupart très différentes.

A mon avis la différence de mon point de vue avec celui d'Hugo et de Pierre et que moi je ne viens pas de la banlieu parisienne contrairement à eux. Pour moi le mot banlieu évoque forcément la cité, et pas simplement les quartiers résidentielles qui se trouvent en périphérie des villes. Et à mon avis mon point de vue n'est pas isolé vue que qu'en on parle d'un "jeune de banlieu" cela signifie souvent qu'il est issu de milieu défavorisé.

Everyone seems to be talking about how "banlieu" are often stereotyped as projects, but I feel like we are stereotyping projects as well.  Projects with the horrible circumstances people have described in this thread certainly exist.  And in the US, projects are generally parts of cities, and sometimes called "the intercity."  However, at least in Chicago where I grew up, projects are not in city centers.  The "downtown" areas of big cities are affluent and fairly safe.  Areas of high violence tend to be closer to city limits, and further away from centers of commerce.

In Chicago, and a number of other big cities, many projects are being dismantled and replaces with "mixed income housing."  Additionally, while this is certainly more the exception than the rule, some projects are relatively free of violence and actually nice places to live.  For example, many MIT students don't know this, but there are multiple projects in the City of Cambridge.  One of them is on Main St., right next to MIT campus.  It is so pleasant looking that, until someone told me otherwise, I thought the buildings were condos.  My friends and I walk past it all the time, even very late at night.  But as far as I have experienced, Cambridge is a very safe place.

Are there efforts to dismantle violent projects and make "mixed income" housing in France?  Likewise, do you know of safe projects that break stereotypes?