Les étudiants de MIT et ceux de l'ENSEIRB-MATMECA sont d'accord sur un point : "l'argent". Mais leurs opinions divergent sur d'autres points. Par exemple, les étudiants de MIT semblent s'accorder à dire que les américains sont obsédés par les apparences et par la façon dont ils sont perçus par les autres. Ceci n'apparaît jamais dans les réponses de l'ENSEIRB-MATMECA. Inversement, "le pouvoir" est répété plusieurs fois dans les réponses françaises mais apparaît à peine dans les réponses américaines.

Pouvez-vous précisez pour quelles raisons l'apparence semble être une obsession chez les américains? Pourquoi avoir mis ce mot et pas un autre?

Noujoud, 

In my opinion, Americans are very concerned with the image that they give to others in the sense that being politically correct is very important. Especially in the politics, perhaps because so many different cultures and backgrounds make up the US, it is very important not to come across as prejudiced or biased. 

On another note, while fast food came up in both columns, McDonald's came up only in the ENSEIRB side. There are so many different fast food options here. Is McDonald's a large American symbol in France?

I agree that students from both schools say that money is an American obsession. I also noticed the trend in the word "power" in the French responses. Do you think that individuals are obsessed with power, or is it more often businesses or government offices?

I seriously don't think Americans are obsessed by their looks. Can you tell me what was the last "original" or "un-original" look you have seen? Probably not, since people do not pay attention to how they dress, how others dress and nor do they care how others percieve them. There is the usual looking after oneself for being different, but nothing out of common. 

I noticed that money was a common response for both schools in regard to American's obsessions. I also noticed that the French students had more responses regarding war and power. Are the American people as a whole perceived as obsessed with war and power, or is it just the government that is perceived as such?

@Victor:

I disagree with you. I think that people at MIT generally don't care about the way that they dress, but people in my high school were extremely fixated on this, generally along with their parents. I agree that there are not many "original" looks in the world, but I think that the phrase "first impressions are everything" really comes into peoples minds a lot in the everyday world.

Also, I  noticed that celebrities and pop culture only came up on the American students side, but earlier in the word formus people had been discussing how american Hollywood is and I am curious that since many of the French students know and associate America with Hollywood, why it did not come up here? Is is just an icon and nothing more?

@Frances

Les symboles américains qu'on trouve le plus en France sont McDonald's et CocaCola. Ils font partie intégrante de la vie des français.

D'ailleurs, à un moment dans le film Pulp Fiction, John Travolta parle des différences entres les menus proposés au Mcdo. Effectivement, notre Mcdo est assez différent du votre, c'est aussi le cas d'autres Mcdo du monde entier qui s'adaptent au goût locaux. Par exemple j'ai eu la chance de voyager au Japon, où j'ai pu trouver des hamburgers aux crevettes!

@Amber @Adrian

Je pense que nous faisons tous référence au besoin de pouvoir et de guerre de la part du gouvernement (je ne sais pas vraiment ce qu'en pensent les autres enseirbiens). Notamment le besoin de gouverner le monde.

Même si cela peut aussi préoccuper les pensées des individus (en vue des manifestations qui ont déjà eu lieu).

@Elise

Je ne pense pas que Hollywood et tout ce qui l'entoure passent avant l'argent, le pouvoir, les fast food, etc... Vu que la question ciblait sur ce qui obsède le plus les américains, nous n'avons pas évoqué les stars américaines.

It's strange that Americans seem to think they're concerned about appearance when it's often I see people in gym clothes or pajamas in the public: the grocery store, train station, on the streets. Their hair sometimes is a mess and looks like they just woke up. 

On the other hand I think the French cares (or obsesses with---either way it's not a bad thing) about how they look when they're in the public.

Why do one of you think Americans are obsessed with video games?

I think there is another side of the concern for appearance that you aren't thinking about. For me, when I think about the issue of appearance, and being superficial, I think about the growing popularity of botox and plastic surgery. We, as Americans, base a lot on the way someone looks.

@Noujoud

I think the word "power" has a lot of different conotations, and among them, the power to change the world for the better. For example, there are many Americans involved in groups such as the Red Cross Association to try to make a difference in the world through providing aid and food. In this case, "power" is more like "ability" or "capacity" rather than "control" because it is difficult to imagine the world as a place where every country is aiming to rule others.

What do you think? When the French say that Americansare obsessed with power, what type of power are they referring to?

About appearance, I think that there is a great regional dependence. For example, in cities, people generally take more time with their appearance. This can be further subdivided into what areas of a city you are in (for instance, the business area or the hipster district). However in the suburbs, where it simply isn't feasible to walk around, people are generally more relaxed about their apparel. Of course, the different regions of the US (West Coast, East Coast, Midwest, specific states) all have a different idea of what putting effort into their appearance entails. 

I think that the American response of appearance, and the French response of pouvoir, reflects what we see of America in our daily lives.  From within the country, Americans see the media everyday which obsesses on the appearance of celebrities and people in the news.  In France, you probably observe the presence of the US in France and see international news about American activities in foreign countries, making you very cognizant of "pouvoir."  Would you agree.

I would say that MIT students are less concerned with appearance than the general American population.

I think that our discussion is a good example of a major difference in media focus between France and the U.S. Many of the American students mentioned appearance as an obsession, as discussed above. In the U.S., the media reflects this obsession well. I bet that more people in the U.S. know about the recent Charlie Sheen scandal than what has been going on in Egypt. I feel like I see more magazines, websites, and news programs focused on the celebrity world than the real world. It seems to me that France is more concerned with real world news and politics. Is this true? Do you see more celebrity news or political news in France?

@Juliann 

Pourquoi les étudiants de l'MIT sont moins soucieux de l'apparence? Est ce que ton affirmation sous-entend que dans les milieux "intellectuels" américain on a plus tendance a dépassé les préjugés sur l'apparence?

Je ne suis pas tout a fait d'accord avec ton analyse consistant a relier l'obsession des français pour le pouvoir et la puissance des Etats-Unis. Je pense qu'il y a une autre cause pour cette obsession au pouvoir. 

Ahmed

@ Amber

Les évènements qui secouent certains pays arabes ont largement était abordés dans les médias français. Je dirais que dans les médias français on trouve un peu de tout suivant les chaines et les émissions. Mais il y a une tendance a "peopolisé" les politiques.

PS : Certaines émissions people françaises ont aussi abordé rapidement Charlie Sheen et ses problèmes de violences;)   

@Juliann :

Je m'excuse je me suis trompé dans mon précédent message, je pensais que j'étais sur le forum Les Français sont obsédait par...:p mea culpa.

Pour corriger, je partage ton analyse.

I believe that some MIT students don't really care about appearance because the people they hang out with don't really care. If there are far more exciting things to worry about, then the logical choice is to give priority to those.

I'd like to make a remark about appearance.

I definitely do NOT think Americans care about their appearance as much as people or other countries, especially the French, do. I know this is a generalization, but if you take the average American (not MIT which is the center of sloppiness and not NYC which is its fashion capital) he or she is generally thought to be pretty sloppy in dress.

Take, for example, the sweatpants and sneakers. While there are places in America where such clothing is permissible (one sees people wearing such apparel in malls or lounging around or even walking on the streets with basketball shorts!). i don't think people even sell real sweatpants (the ones that are big and bulky and cinch off at the ankles). If you ever go to Europe people generally do not wear such clothes outside of the gym. And even when they do wear sweatpants they tend not to be the sweatpants we use (the big bulky ones that cut off at the ankle and swallow your shape) but track pants/ jackets. Also, generally, one does not wear sneakers outside of the gym either. I've seen MANY people wear basketball shirts, sweatpants, sneakers etc. outside of MIT.

Furthermore, I don't think one can say, here are a few people in the  US who dress well, therefore all of America dresses well. We are not comparing the same types of people. If we were to make comparisons to other countries, we should compare the same things. For example, if we were to compare engineering schools, people at MIT are comparable to people at ENSIERB. People at MIT do not dress as well as people at ENSIERB. Now if we were to compare fashion capitals, we should compare New York to Paris, in which case I think Paris wins on this (I had been to New York many times and still was shocked that everyone looked like they walked out of a magazine in Paris).

I definitely do not think Americans (in general) care about their appearance in terms of how they look and dress. I would very strongly disagree on that point. However, I would agree that perhaps they care about saving face and appearing dominant etc. I think that might be what the student was implying

I'd like to make a remark about appearance.

I definitely do NOT think Americans care about their appearance as much as people or other countries, especially the French, do. I know this is a generalization, but if you take the average American (not MIT which is the center of sloppiness and not NYC which is its fashion capital) he or she is generally thought to be pretty sloppy in dress.

Take, for example, the sweatpants and sneakers. While there are places in America where such clothing is permissible (one sees people wearing such apparel in malls or lounging around or even walking on the streets with basketball shorts!). i don't think people even sell real sweatpants
(the ones that are big and bulky and cinch off at the ankles). If you ever go to Europe people generally do not wear such clothes outside of the gym. And even when they do wear sweatpants they tend not to be the sweatpants we use (the big bulky ones that cut off at the ankle and swallow your shape) but track pants/ jackets. Also, generally, one does not wear sneakers outside of the gym either. I've seen MANY people wear basketball shirts, sweatpants, sneakers etc. outside of MIT.

Furthermore, I don't think one can say, here are a few people in the  US who dress well, therefore all of America dresses well. We are not comparing the same types of people. If we were to make comparisons to other countries, we should compare the same things. For example, if we were to compare engineering schools, people at MIT are comparable to people at ENSIERB. People at MIT do not dress as well as people at ENSIERB. Now if we were to compare fashion capitals, we should compare New York to Paris, in which case I think Paris wins on this (I had been to New York many times and still was shocked that everyone looked like they walked out of a magazine in Paris).

I definitely do not think Americans (in general) care about their appearance in terms of how they look and dress. I would very strongly disagree on that point. However, I would agree that perhaps they care about saving face and appearing dominant etc. I think that might be what the student was implying

Amy, I completely agree with you!! :) When I came to this country, I was like wholy _____, if some of the MIT student showed up in Europe like this people would stare at them with outrage.

I went to Microsoft and some of the other companies where people actually wear flip-flops at their work place. I mean, do I actually need to stare at someone's toes, very badly manicured if I might add, while I work? I think that the way people dress is also a sign of respect and a matter of taste and life choices.

What about France? How do people dress for school and work? One thing is stuff we see in magazines, what about real life situations? And do you guys, both American and French students, think that it's ok for people to wear flip-flops to work in one of the most famous and very big companies like Microsoft? (just an example)

A l'ENSEIRB, On trouve un peu de tout niveau code vestimentaire mais c'est plutôt dans le décontracté. Par contre j'ai remarqué que dans les écoles  de commerce Française les étudiants prennent plus soins de leur apparence que dans les écoles d'ingénieurs, est ce le cas aussi aux USA?

Concernant les grandes entreprises Françaises, je pense que la majorité préconise le port d'un costume pour les hommes et d'un tailleur pour les femmes. J'ai lu un article hier dans la presse concernant un employé qui s'est fait viré car il portait un jean. Il y a même des banques Européennes (UBS par exemple) qui conseillent dans leur règlement intérieur sur le choix des habits intérieurs:) 

Je trouve que porter des flip-flops au travail renvoie une image trop décontracté de la personne, mais ça ne m'étonne pas des entreprises Américaines car elles préfèrent que leurs employés soit  à l'aise pour mieux produire.

@ Ahmed

Yes, it is usually the case in America that engineers dress more casually than people in business, finance, or political science. I first learned of this when I met with a group of NASA engineers to discuss a project. I was surprised to see that most of the engineers, mostly older men, arrived to the meeting in jeans and sneakers.

I think Americans are obsessed with how other people look but not necessarily themselves. The fact that there are magazines about "who wore this better" shows that Americans seem to worry about what other people are doing when they might be pretty shabby themselves. I agree with Jovana about what how you dress is a sign of respect and I think flips flops outside are not acceptable unless you are at a beach. I think the American style has become very lax lately and instead of worrying about being underdressed for events I worry about being overdressed so that I don't stick out too much.

@ Ahmed: I do think Americans dress rather well in business schools, at least at MIT Sloan and Harvard Business School. Otherwise, most students don't really care about how they dress. 

@Lucy

Quand nous avons écrit "pouvoir", nous parlions de "contrôle", pas de "capacité". Je ne pense pas que les américains soient obsédés par leur capacité d'aider les autres, en tout cas pas plus qu'un autre pays.

@ Noujoud

I do not think that all Americans are obsessed with controlling the world. We are not exactly planning to conquer the world. What do you mean by control or "govern" the world? I don't think I understand.

I would like to say though that I do know many people who are very involved in global povery initiatives, world healthcare, and disaster relief organizations. I defnitely think that the United States tries hard to be involved in global efforts and do what it can to help.

@ Ahmed

I think a person's appearance and dress also depends on where they live in the United States. Some areas of New York City are known for fashion and  designer clothing stores and these are the regions that tend to be home to many fashionably dressed individuals. Yet, in other parts of New York City, clothing styles are much more casual. Are there cities in France that exhibit this behavior too?

It is not the case that everyone at MIT does not care of how they dress, but I have noticed that culture of MIT puts less emphasis on appearance than what I witnessed in my high school.  I think it is partly to do with the casual style of engineering.  

I would agree that Americans are concerned less with fashion during their daily errands compared to Europeans.  For example, it is not uncommon to wear sneakers with your street clothes, but I felt that a person wearing sneakers stood out more in Europe.

:) I think people should stop referring to their high-schools. Everyone should recognize that the high-school system in the US is one of the worst, hence making it a point of comparison has no weight. 

@Lucy

You are right to say that not all the Americans are obsessed with controling the world, however, the decisions that America as a country makes do not depend on most of the Americans. And that again applies to initiatives in other countries :), 7 wars in the last 20 years make exactly the kind of impression that @Noujoud is talking about.

hmmm we seem to agree that people in business school here are much better dressed. However, I feel that the business school has a disproportionately large amount of international students (both sloan and HBS) - a lot of them coming from Europe. The Americans, also, would have generally more cultural experience in general that exposed them to other cultures that value clothes and fashion.

I also feel that perhaps it is that some Americans are judgemental about the appearance of others but I think that is much more the case in other countries (for example, in France they have an expression that beauty is power or something to that extent - that people openly respond to beauty whereas that isn't really the case here. Any response to beauty in particular is generally cinsidered taboo and done tacitly).

But enough about appearances what about money, why do you think Americans are so obsessed with money?

Money and power on both sides of the forum.  Could it be a confirmation that the United States is an economic and poltiical superpower in global politics.  I am not suggesting this is true, just or fair, but I wonder if this has to do with the fact that people around the world (including Americans) perceive it to be so.

D'après ce que vous avez écrit les Américains sont obsédés par l'argent, et je pense que l'argent joue un rôle très important aux Etats Unis.

I agree that the nation as a whole may be obsessed with money and the economy, but the majority of the individuals are not. I think this is another reflection of the American idea of success. Happiness is frequently regarded more highly over money.

I am curious to know, why do you think of Americans as being obsessed by guns?

Also, it is interesting to note that you qualified the US obsessed by both: sport and food. Why do you think this is the case?