La différence de point de vue est flagrante entre les américains et les français. Les américains sont majoritairement choqués tandis que les français pensent que ça ne peut que lui faire du bien, que c’est certainement justifié et que ça ne les regarde pas. Je trouve tout ça très marrant. La France a quand même une image plutôt sociale et les Etats-Unis reflètent une certaine forme évidente de virilité (Far West, grande armée, guerre moderne …). Il est donc pour moi très étonnant de voir que vos points de vue sont contradictoires par rapport à cela. Vos points de vue sont-ils le reflet du point de vue général américain à ce sujet aujourd’hui ?

Growing up in a Hispanic home, physical discipline was definitely the norm. So I tend to see the situation from a point of view closer to that of the French.

Damien, the views reflected on the MIT side are definitely reflective of the public at large here in the U. S. Physical disciplining of children is looked down upon and alternative forms of “education,” positive reinforcement, “time out,” etc. are the preferred methods. However, I’d be curious to see how people feel that the two approaches compare in terms of effectiveness.

I do think that is worth mentioning that physical discipline is still very common throughout the U. S., despite being unpopular in more liberal circles. While I don’t agree with it, this kind of discipline is considered normal by a lot of people. I think the general distinction is that is founded impolite to discipline your child in public, and that you should try to keep such displays private, hence why most Americans would be shocked to see this.

I’m interested in to the MIT student who responded that they would be appalled and not know how to react compared to Enseirb students who said they wouldn’t even react. This means that this student has never seen something like before, so I guess it depends which state you’re from.

I can see why Damien thinks that it’s controversial for Americans to be against physical discipline for children while favoring war, big army, etc. He might be thinking that how do they care about slapping a kid more than killing millions of people abroad. I think it’s worth highlighting the distinction between the government-related and domestic issues. Also, MIT students mostly have liberal backgrounds; they might be seeing physical discipline as a form of domestic violence. I wonder if the answers would be different if a non-liberal audience was surveyed. On another note, I grew up in Turkey with my mom throwing a bunch of missed slippers at me and my brother just to scare us. I don’t think it helped our discipline in any way. If I saw a mother slapping her child in a supermarket, I wouldn’t speak up, but I wouldn’t approve it either. If it’s someone I know though, I’d definitely talk to them.

I definitely agree that the responses on the MIT students side seem to be more liberal, but for the people that are ok with this, do you think this kind of behavior (physical discipline) produces long-lasting results, or just has an immediate effect on the child and that is why parents do it. (So if someone slapped a child for doing something, would the child learn their lesson and not do it again in the future, or only temporarily stop).

Damien, I think you bring up a very interesting point. I think the responses we see on the MIT side are reflective of a policing sort of behavior that is more or less the norm in the United States - people see something they do not like, and many will maybe say something even if they do not know the people involved. I think this is probably very different from a society where there is a bit a of a tighter “social code” for interaction with strangers versus with people you know, and perhaps one where private life is seen as more private than in the United States. I agree that the general liberal American public is very good at a certain form of cognitive dissonance where the havoc the country wreaks on the world is not weighed heftily enough in our consciences, which leads to certain glaring contradictions between the things that our participation in American society perpetuate (war, oppression, etc.) and the values we claim to have. I’d like to ask ENSEIRB students - are there cases in public (besides, let’s say, blatant crimes) where you feel like it is your place as a stranger to intervene?

“do you think this kind of behavior (physical discipline) produces long-lasting results, or just has an immediate effect on the child and that is why parents do it” Michael, je vais essayer de répondre à ta question en te donnant mon point de vue. L’Homme n’est pas tout le temps rationnel ou même moral. Un enfant l’est encore moins. L’enfant cherche la plupart du temps à assouvir ses caprices et rien d’autre. Il ne veut pas comprendre qu’il ne doit pas faire quelque chose parce qu’il veut le faire et c’est tout. A défaut de pouvoir le résonner immédiatement, les parents le corrige physiquement pour qu’il arrête de faire ce qu’il ne doit pas faire. Il faut bien-sûr lui expliquer le pourquoi de la chose afin qu’il apprenne ensuite. Et généralement, en grandissant, il apprend. De la même façon mais à une autre échelle, on ne fait pas du social avec les pédophiles et les meurtriers. On les met en prison. Et avant, on les exécutait. Le social a ses limites. Car comme je l’ai dit avant, les Hommes ne sont pas tout le temps rationnels. Aujourd’hui, la correction physique est généralement mal vue et est donc moins utilisée qu’avant. Mais on voit aussi énormément d’enfants très mal élevés de nos jours. Ce qui n’était pas le cas avant. Pensez en ce que vous voulez mais je conclurai en disant qu’il n’y a pas de fumée sans feu…

I see what your saying Damien, and it actually makes me think of another question. I have heard a lot that positive reinforcement is more effective than punishment, so do you (and anyone else) think that rather than using punishment to stop a child from doing something, it would be better to reward the good behavior so they continue to do that? Do you think this would produce the same/worse/better results than positive punishment?

Damien, I find your comment “Et généralement, en grandissant, il apprend” to be really interesting. I think the reason physical discipline has become so frowned upon in the U. S. is that, generally, children will mature and improve without any kind of negative reinforcement, just as a result of growing up. However, I’ve noticed that a lot of the people who think physical discipline is effective tend to grow up to be more aggressive. Do you think that it’s possible that this kind of physical discipline has a negative effect in the long term, based on how it encourages violence?

Damien, I understand where you’re coming from in that children must have good morals and proper behavior instilled upon them, which often means varying levels of discipline. However, physical punishment, as Collin said, can severely impact a child’s development in the long term. Growing up in an Asian environment, I am well-acquainted with negative reinforcement from both parents and teachers. While these forms of discipline are often effective in the short term, over time, it can lead to children who are more anxiety-prone and less self-confident. Furthermore, slapping a child in public can be very humiliating for the child, which may lead to more problems with self-esteem and anxiety later on. You pointed out that children in the past seemed more well-behaved, which can correlate with the use of physical punishment. However, I would argue that children in the past are just as badly behaved, if not worse. It can be that a rise in living standards has enabled for more leisure time and social interaction, thus enabling for more opportunities for bad behavior to exhibit. Either way, I don’t believe that physical force is a civilized way of handling any situation.

I 100% agree with Susan and her answer. There are some types of negative reinforcement which can deeply impact the way a person displays themselves to others and how they feel about themselves. I also agree that there is not necessarily a trend of bad behavior now any more than there was in the past. Also, there are other ways of expressing your displeasure and reasoning to your children other than hitting them. I think doing that mainly just scares them and while it may work in changing their behavior, their behavior probably didn’t change for the right reasons and so they didn’t really learn why what they are doing is unacceptable but instead learned to fear punishment instead.

I disagree with jesszhc. I grew up in a culture where physical punishment was used and in my opinion, was quite effective. As long as you justify to the child why they are being hit, I am of the opinion that it will continue to be effective as then it is not senseless punishment, it comes with a lesson.

I agree with several of Damian’s points. Children can be stubborn and reluctant to learn when parents correct them. There’s obviously a line between the use of physical force for teaching/reprimanding and harm. I find it very appropriate for those to act on the side of the former. Getting slapped as a kid is a wake up call. It’s easier to remember than being told to or not to do something. While kids still lack the maturity to understand the lesson their parents are teaching, they’ll still learn to behave appropriately to avoid punishment. With time kids begin to understand to social or other implications of their behavior and no longer act in order to avoid punishment, but because they really get “it.”

I think there is an interesting divide in opinion among the MIT students here on physical discipline of children. Just like Abrito, I grew up in a culture where physical punishment of children is the norm, and I would say it is “effective” in the sense that I learned to curb whatever behavior was being punished, but not effective in the sense of feeling safe and comfortable with my parents. I think, however, a cultural divide may be the lack of or presence of the desire to be friends with your parents, in the sense of being comfortable coming to them with worries and issues. ENSEIRB students: would you say in general, French parents strive to be “friends” with their children or to be distant figures of authority?

Comme l’a dit Abrito, “it is not senseless punishment, it comes with a lesson”. Christienwilliams, je n’aurais pas pu mieux illustrer mes propos. Au final, nous ne serons jamais tous d’accord et ça ne me dérange pas. Cependant, je tiens à vous informer que vous serez tôt ou tard confrontés à de la vraie violence, cette fois injustifiée et bien moins pacifique, et que si vous voulez pouvoir y faire face il va peut-être vous falloir comprendre que l’on ne vit pas dans “le monde des bisounours” et que peut-être que le fait de gifler un enfant dans le cadre de son éducation n’est pas si terrible en comparaison à la violence présente dans ce monde. Ils en verront d’autres et vous aussi … C’est même peut-être un bon apprentissage de la réalité qu’est notre monde ! Il y a même certains adultes qui n’ont pas atteint la maturité d’apprendre par eux-même et à qui une petite gifle ne ferait pas de mal …

Je suis désolé mais je vais paraître comme on dit par chez nous “de la vieille école”, mais je suis en grande partie d’accord avec Damien dans le sens où pour moi les sanctions comme une gifle sont parfois nécessaires dans l’éducation d’un enfant. Pour moi un enfant ne doit pas considérer ses parents comme ses amis mais simplement comme des personnes qu’il doit respecter mais en qui il peut toujours trouver refuge et avoir pleine confiance.

Le fait de remarquer chez les étudiants français des réponses telles que ” Il l’a sûrement mérité”, “Je ne fais rien”,”C’est une bonne mère”, reflète le manque de connaissances sur la maltraitance des enfants sous le prétexte que les parents ont toujours une affection pour leurs enfants, ce qui est malheureusement faux. J’avoue que c’est très compliqué de réagir sur le moment mais je pense qu’il faut se rapprocher de l’enfant ou faire un signalement si c’est récurrent.

Pour répondre à Stéphane, je pense que l’amalgame est très dangereuse et pas forcément justifié. Pour ma part, mes parents m’ont parfois giflé et ce qui est sur c’est que cela m’a beaucoup appris et que c’était justifié. Alors bien évidemment la maltraitance des enfants existe mais de là à interdire la gifle je trouve ça déplorable.

Dans ce genre de cas il est en effet difficile de réagir, en effet je pense qu’une giffle n’est pas forcément pas la bonne solution. Mais, parfois c’est la seul manière de se faire entendre selon les entant que l’on a en face de nous. Dans d’autre cas on peut voir que ces giffles sont à répétitions ainsi je pense que garder un oeil sur la situation peut être une réaction plus intéressante. Ensuite contrairement à Damien je pense pas qu’il y ait de relation entre la gouvernance d’un pays et la manière d’élever son enfant.