It seems like the MIT students find work stressful, difficult, and something to be afraid of. It is also kind of funny that MIT students associate work with the scientific definitions too. While ESNEIRB students also find work difficult and tiring, there seems to be an emphasis on your colleagues. Do most people make good friends with their colleagues at work? I also am curious why courage came up a couple of times. Do you feel the need for courage to find a job?

As Stephen said, MIT students seem to associate work with stress and being tired, while ENSEIRB students do not make this association as much. I wonder if this is because there is more of an emphasis on balancing your personal and professional lives in France than there is in the U. S. The ENSEIRB students also associate work more with a professional career, while the MIT students think of work more as something in school. For the ENSEIRB students, is there clear distinction between schoolwork and professional work?

In line with what Julia and Stephen said, the MIT students seem to focus on the idea that work is stressful and fatiguing more than the ENSEIRB students, and the ENSEIRB students seem to focus on colleagues and collaboration. It also seems as though the ENSEIRB students put more of an emphasis on being passionate about your work, which could be why there is less of a focus on work being stressful and tiring there. Like Stephen, I am similarly curious as to why the ENSEIRB list has courage there, maybe to say that it takes courage to go do something that you dislike everyday?

Similarly to Michael and Stephen, I noticed that MIT students seemed to mention stress and fatigue more frequently, and the ENSEIRB students mentioned colleagues more often. I also found it interesting that the ENSEIRB students associated money and a salary with work slightly more than students at MIT. I am curious as to what factors are most important to students from ENSEIRB when choosing a job and how they compare to the opinions of students at MIT.

Effectivement, le travail du point de vue des étudiants du MIT est souvent associé au stress et à la fatigue. Comme l’a dit Michael, le fait que les étudiants associent le travail à une passion, fait que l’on pense moins au côté laborieux et fatigant du travail. C’est peut-être un élément de réponse à la question d’Olivia. Pour les étudiants de l’ENSEIRB, les facteurs à prendre en compte lorsqu’il faut trouver un travail sont essentiellement l’intérêt que suscite le poste à occuper, mais aussi le salaire qui nous permettra de vivre plus ou moins confortablement. D’autres facteurs peuvent entrer en jeu (le lieu de travail, la culture et la philosophie de l’entreprise…), à chacun de trouver un équilibre dans ses exigences. De plus, le mot “courage” pour les étudiants de l’ENSEIRB peut faire référence au fait qu’il faut travailler dur, ne pas baisser les bras et surmonter les échecs pour atteindre ses objectifs. Concernant la question de julia, il est possible que la notion de travail n’ait été abordée que dans le domaine professionnel chez les étudiants de l’ENSEIRB contrairement aux étudiants du MIT qui ont également pensé à l’associer aux études.

One thing I find unique about MIT is that you can find people who don’t think about the laborious connotation of jobs/work after graduation very readily. These individuals view the steps after college not as where they “join the workforce,” but instead as where they get their opportunity to do what they love to change the world. The focus is on their passions and the differences they hope to make. Do you see these types of people as well at ENSEIRB?

I’m not very surprised by the disparities we’ve noted between the two responses. I think that, compared to many other cultures, American culture is one that is obsessed with productivity. It’s clear that in France work is seen as less stressful and more value is placed on collaboration and one’s relationship with his/her colleagues. I wonder if our long hours, short lunch breaks, and strict punctuality actually get more work done or perhaps we could emphasize a better work-life balance without sacrificing productivity?

To what Christien said, I agree that you could find people that don’t find work so laborious and tiring, but I guess I imagine most people finding whatever job they can to feed their families/just make ends meet. Perhaps I have a pessimistic view, but for everyone else, do you think most people have jobs they enjoy, or are just doing what they have to in order to survive?

After reading Julien’s comment I’m curious as to why the ENSEIRB students did not associate work with studies while the MIT students did. I think it’s interesting that a good amount of MIT students immediately jumped to coursework rather than jobs or careers. What words would ENSEIRB students associate with work relating to studies, and what words would MIT students associate with their careers after school? What values are in French culture that are not in American culture that puts a heavier influence on working together and colleagues?

Regarding Julien’s comment about MIT students thinking of our schoolwork when thinking of these words, I think it is very much an MIT thing, but also reflective of American culture. In education, there is an emphasis on economic viability: we have to study something that we can make money with. I think this comes from the nature of America’s voraciously consumerist society. Also, this is particularly acute at MIT. Most people here study engineering, which is in a sense science, but is really professional preparation. There is less of a focus on holistic development and enrichment than on getting ready for a job. I believe that this is why we think of school when we think of work.

In response to Christien’s response about some people on the MIT side having not so pessimistic thoughts about jobs, I imagine that these people might be the younger students in our class who doesn’t worry about after college life so much. I find the responses of both sides very predictable since the Americans live to work and the French work to live. I think in the U. S., since work is where you spend most of your time at and salaries are really competitive, jobs are considered important and stressful. Interning in France instead of the U. S. for the last two summers were the best decision I made at MIT so far :) Since noone mentioned o the ENSEIRB side, I wonder whether there are any ENSEIRB students who are stressed or nervous about work ?

There were definitely ENSEIRB students who associated “work” with money, necessity, and stress and fatigue, and others who mentioned passion and learning. I think MIT students mentioned stress and tiredness a little bit more, but the main difference I see is that MIT students, as others have mentioned, associated work more strongly with science, and ENSEIRB students focused more on the details of employment. I think MIT students talk about science more because of MIT’s culture – it’s really easy to get involved in scientific work while here, and many students do so during the semester. Same for issues of employment – while MIT students definitely worry about getting a good, fulfilling job, for most of us we’re ultimately told it won’t be an issue. My understanding is that in France, however, unemployment has been more of a cultural problem. I wonder to what degree that is still the case for young people?

I thought it was really interesting how a lot of the ENSEIRB students associated “travail” with “passion”. The consensus among Americans is that not many people will ever find passion in their work. We work as a means to an end. What kinds of jobs are you guys, the ENSEIRB students, looking for after you graduate?

Je comprends le point de vue de tonyproll et de Michael : beaucoup de personnes doivent travailler pour subvenir à leurs besoins même si leur travail ne leur plaît pas. Cette idée rejoint également celle de emma : la situation du pays et les difficultés de l’emploi que nous traversons poussent font que le travail est un problème qui nous préoccupe tous. De ce fait, certaines personnes peuvent très bien se contenter de l’activité qu’elles exercent même si celle-ci ne correspond pas du tout à leur passion, car au final le plus important est d’avoir un emploi pour joindre les deux bouts. Il peut être intéressant en effet de se demander si nos idées (du côté des élèves de l’ENSEIRB) se sont tournées vers le travail au sens professionnel à cause la situation actuelle du marché de l’emploi qui doit sûrement nous préoccuper, ou si nous y avons pensé car nous arrivons au terme de notre cursus scolaire et que nous commençons déjà à nous concentrer sur notre avenir professionnel. Les deux sont forcément liés même si en général, l’accès au marché du travail après nos études est plutôt assuré.
Pour répondre à Sule, je pense que bien sûr on est stressé par rapport au travail (Est-ce que je vais vivre de ma passion ? Est-ce que je pourrai subvenir à mes besoins ? ) mais aussi par nos études (réussite aux examens, compréhension, devoirs,….). Nous avons tous des doutes et je suppose que c’est le cas aussi pour les étudiants du MIT ?
Enfin, j’ai aussi remarqué que les étudiants de l’ENSEIRB faisaient beaucoup référence à l’environnement de travail (collègues, syndicat, patron) et je pense jesszhc, que les étudiants de l’ENSEIRB seront amenés à travailler en équipe sur divers projets, interagir avec des collègues, supérieurs, clients,…. D’ailleurs nous réalisons de nombreux travaux en groupe pour y être préparés, c’est peut-être une des raisons pour lesquelles ces idées ont eu tant d’influence dans nos réponses.

To answer Julien, I think MIT students also often doubt themselves and find the future to be uncertain and stressful to think about, even though we are all preparing ourselves in our education. Perhaps we are especially stressed because many of us strive for very high goals that we cannot safely secure.
I think it is also interesting that the ENSEIRB students have a lot of group projects in their studies to prepare for professional work. While I have had a few group projects at MIT, and I work with other people on assignments, I would say that most of the work I do is submitted individually. Maybe this relates to the fact that the American students seem to value individualism more than the French students.

I agree with Julia with the fact that a lot of the work is submitted individually here at MIT, however I do believe MIT fosters a strong sense of collaboration and teamwork. In other words, although we physically submit homework on our own, we generally work together with other students to finish assignments on time and understand concepts; at least, that is what I have experienced during my time at MIT.

While we are talking about assignments and school, however, I have a question about the schooling system in France. I remember learning about the French education system guiding students to decide on their path of study and profession, whether engineering, law, medicine, etc., much earlier than here in the United States where we can make these decisions during our university years, as late as the third year. I am curious to learn more about this, is this still the case in France?

I think Julien brings up an interesting point in terms of how MIT and ENSEIRB students think about work and the future. MIT students are perhaps more concerned about the immediate future, thus leading us to think about studies while ENSEIRB students are more concerned about the longterm future related to finding a job, thus leading to words about careers. Would you find this to be accurate? As an ENSEIRB student are you more concerned about jobs after college or doing the workload you currently have? As a freshman, I am currently more concerned about studies and so I think that is a valid reason for why my mind jumped to academics when reading the word work.

Pour répondre à tonyproll, selon moi la notion de travail est différente entre les étudiants de l’ENSEIRB et du MIT à cause du système scolaire. En effet, après avoir lu plusieurs commentaires du MIT, on a l’impression que le travail pour les américains est une tâche nécessaire pour survenir à ses besoins, et plus celui ci rapportera mieux il sera (cela est peut être due à la pression que génère le prix des études aux Etats Unis). En revanche en France, le travail peut généralement s’associer à du plaisir car notre système scolaire nous permet de choisir n’importe quel domaine d’étude avec des coûts de scolarité très faible voir nul lorsque l’on est bousier. On peut donc s’orienter vers un travail plaisant qui rapporte peut être moins d’argent mais qui nous plaît d’avantage car nous n’avons pas de prêt étudiant à rembourser.

La question de acfiallo concernant notre orientation scolaire est intéressante. Il est vrai qu’en France nous sommes amenés à choisir notre orientation très tôt durant notre scolarité. Même si on s’oriente déjà vers des filières spécifiques comme les sciences, la littérature, ou l’économie dès le lycée, il est possible dans certains cas d’étudier des matières complètements opposées à l’université (certains peuvent par exemple se lancer dans des études de droit après avoir étudié en filière scientifique au lycée). Cependant, une fois que l’on s’oriente vers un domaine en particulier, il est difficile de changer de voie après une ou plusieurs années d’études à l’université. La difficulté vient souvent de soi car comme le dit Pierre, nous n’avons pas beaucoup de coûts de scolarité à assurer mais certains peuvent avoir le sentiment d’abandonner après s’être engagés dans une voie en particulier, perdre des années d’études et de travail pour changer totalement de domaine d’études. On engage parfois aussi le soutien (notamment financier) de nos proches par exemple pour le logement ou pour nous aider à subvenir à nos besoins… Les étudiants du MIT ne ressentent-ils pas plus de pression en sachant qu’il faut, en plus, assurer les frais de scolarité  ? Par exemple si un étudiant change d’orientation après deux années à l’université, ces deux années de perdues ne représentent-elles pas un investissement trop important pour être perdues ?

Reacting to Julien’s comment, I think it’s true that students in US universities feel more pressure to stick to a major early on during our college years. This is because we want to take the most advantage of the four years and not pay extra later by falling behind on classes. This is pressure is probably not felt as intensely in France given that university level education is much cheaper or even free, whereas the cost of college education in the US can go up to $70,000  per year. So I guess while we don’t have outside pressures forcing us to choose a major or specialty earlier on in our careers, we do indeed feel internal pressures to decide on a path of study as soon as possible. Julien and Pierre, would you say students in France also pressure themselves to choose a major early on or is it more pressures coming from the institutions themselves?

Je pense que la pression dont parlent Julien et Pierre concerne plutôt la réussite. En effet, beaucoup de formation nécessitent des concours qui eux même demande un investissement sur plusieurs années allant jusqu’à un certain sacrifice de la vie personnelle. Ainsi, une fois les concours passés et le résultat favorable, il est toujours possible de se faire expulser de sa formation faute de bon résultats. C’est donc de là que l’on se met la pression car ce serait un énorme gâchis d’avoir perdu plusieurs années à s’investir pour se voir fermer la dernière porte.