Les réponses des étudiants américains sont très différentes de celles
faites par les étudiants français. Pour nous, c'est assez impoli de
tutoyer quelqu'un qu'on ne connaît pas. C'est la même chose d'appeler
quelqu'un par son prénom, surtout quand on est jeune. C'est
généralement aux petits enfants que l'on parle comme ça...

Generally,
students from MIT responded that they would not care much about it and
nobody from MIT would try to correct the employee's behavior.

On the contrary, several students from Ecole Polytechnique
responded that they would feel uncomfortable about it and would let the
employee know that he has made a mistake indirectly by facial
expression or accent or tell him directly that he has made a mistake.
From this fact alone, it seems that addressing a stranger by first name
is considered much more rude in France. However, there were also a few
students from Ecole Polytechnique who responded that they would not
care much about it and it seems that although in general, the behavior
of the employee would be considered more rude in France, there are
different attidudes toward addressing a person with her first name.
What do you think about this?

It actually feels strange if someone calls me Ms. xx rather than by my
first name. It makes me feel old. I think that Americans greet each
other informally. It's usually on a first name basis. It's not a big
deal at all if someone calls me by my first name. In fact, it will be
weird if they didn't. When you (French) meet someone new, do you always
call them by their last name?

I too prefer being called by my first name. I like my name. Although I
must say that when someone refers to me as Ms.Baptista it sounds very
elegant and gentleman like. When it comes to me addressing others, I'm
bad with names. I usually don't refer to people by their name, I just
say "hi". Do you consider it impolite to not address you by your name
at all?

Using
someone's first name in the United States seems to be something people
do to be friendly and create an atmosphere of openness. Also, in the
US, most employees who wear nametags only have their first name shown,
so we have no choice but to address them by their first name if
necessary.Would it be acceptable in France to address employees by
their first name?

I think you guys are right that Americans in general are less formal. The
biggest indicator oculd actually be in our language. While in French,
there are the verbs "tutoyer" and "vouvoyer" to discuss the formality
(and politeness?) that one uses in a given situation, these verbs don't
really exist in English. This might show that not just Americans, but
English-speaking people in general, place much less emphasis on the
formality of a professional conversation. Do you think that our
language keeps our society less formal? If there were more disctictions
between formal and informal pronouns ("tu" and "vous" in French), would
Americans still be informal in most of our daily interactions?

Another issue that is interesting to address in this situation
are the various reactions of the French students. The majority of
French people would have a problem being called by their first name,
but not so many of them would directly tell the bank employee that this
is a problem. I found it interesting to look at the ways that people go
about letting the employee know that they would prefer to be adressed
formally. For example, some of you would drop hints like always
emphasizing the word "monsieur". In English we have a term called
"passive-agressive", which means that while one does not say directly
what he means, but rather uses subtleties of language combined with
often harsh words, never outright saying what he feels. I'm sure there
is a phrase for this in French as well, and it struck me how some of
you used this passive-aggressive attitude to deal with the rude
employee. Do you think that most French people would prefer to be
indirect and passive-aggressive in this situation? Or would more people
say something directly, like "on n'a pas garde les cochons ensemble" or
"vour pouvez aussi m'appeller Monsieur..."?

I think the gender assumptions that the responses reveal are interesting.
While a few students on both sides commented that the sex of the
employee made a difference, it seems like most MIT students assumed it
would be a women, whil the use of "le" and "il" by the French students
suggests that they assumed the employee was male. Is it true that
working at a bank in France is a historically male profession, or is
the use of the male pronoun an artifact of the French language?

Peut-etre nous trompons nous de question ici. En effet le fait d'appeler
quelqu'un par son prenom ou de l'appeler Monsieur depend seulement de
la culture et de l'education. En France, par tradition, il est plus
poli d'appeler quelqu'un que l'on ne connait pas "Monsieur". Au Mexique
par exemple ce n'est pas le cas. A priori aux USA non plus. Alors il
suffit de s'adapter aux usages locaux : je suis surpris quand un
inconnu en France m'appele par mon prenom, mais je trouve cela normal
de la part d'un mexicain par exemple, et peut etre d'un americain (je
ne suis alle aux USA que tres jeune). Par ailleurs en France au moins
la societe est assez differenciee, et selon le milieu socio culturel le
tutoiement est plus ou moins bienvenu. Il faut donc egalement prendre
en compte l'environnement social.

A l'attention de Stephanie.

Concernant le fait d'appeler des employes par leur prenom, il
s'agit en France d'un point tres subjectif. Cela depend du travail, de
l'environnement social, de l'habitude de l'entreprise. Mais il est
visible que certains employes le preferent, d'autre non. Le plus
souvent omn utilise le prenom, et le tutoiement vient plus tard.

Qu'en est il aus USA ?

Merci

Pour
répondre a maggie, je pense que beaucoup de français préfère utiliser
"passive-aggresive" dans des situations similaires car il s'agit de
faire preuve d'une certaine subtilité. En effet, lorsque que l'on veut
faire comprendre a l'autre sa maladresse, on évite de le crier tout
haut pour l'humilier mais on lui fait remarquer discrètement pour qu'il
puisse corriger le tire sans qu'il se sente trop gêne car en générale
ce genre de situation est considérée comme plutôt embarrassante pour
les français.

Pour repndre a Gwedolyn, je pense que les francais utilisent
le terme "il" pour definir un employee en generale. Les personnes
travaillant au guichet d'une banque ne sont pas plus des hommes que des
femmes?

Si vous etiez plus ages, est-ce-que cela changerait vos reponses?

Tout
d'abord pour repondre a Gwendolyn, il n'est pas exact que les employes
de banque doivent etre des hommes. C'etait peut-etre le cas il y a
quelques dizaines d'annees, mais je peux t'assurer qu'aujourd'hui,
beaucoup de femmes travaillent dans les banques, peut-etre meme une
majorite ! En revanche, les patrons des grandes banques sont en general
des hommes...

Ensuite, je crois que Maggie a entierement raison. Nous autres
Francais n'avons pas le meme rapport avec la politesse que les
Americains. On se demande toujours si on doit "tutoyer" ou "vouvoyer"
quelqu'un. C'est tres important. Generalement om ne tutoie que les gens
que l'on connait bien, ses amis, sa famille. Et encore, il existe des
jeunes qui vouvoient leurs parents ! Mais en fait, cela ne change rien
a la convivialite des rapports qui peuvent exister. Un autre exemple :
je fais du parachutisme et nous sommes encadres par des militaires de
l'Ecole, dont un Commandant (c'est son grade dans l'armee). Quand je
saute avec lui, je l'appelle par son prenom et je le tutoie, et quand
je le vois a l'Ecole, je le vouvoie et je l'appelle "mon Commandant".

Autre chose : les employes de certains magasins en France ont
parfois aussi des etiquettes avec leur prenom ecrit dessus. Jamais il
ne me viendrait a l'idee d'appeler un de ces employes par son prenom.
Je lui dis simplement "Vous..."

Je pense que c'est assez important pour vous de savoir cela,
si un jour vous venez en France, car si vous tutoyez les gens, ils
peuvent prendre cela pour un manque de respect. Est-ce que vos
professeurs par exemple vous appellent par vos prenoms ? Et vous,
comment vous adressez-vous a eux ?

In
response to Charles, I think you have a point. If we were older, than
this would be a different question for us and elicit completely
different responses. My mother is 49, and young and care-free as she
is, she would be shocked if the person at the bank called her Linda,
especially if they were younger than her. That being said, she would
probably smile and go on with her business, not find some way to make
the person realize their mistake. I'm trying to think of what my
grandmother would do. I think she would have the same reaction as my
mom. She would not correct the person, but she would be shocked.
Certainly, she would not say "Are you well?" as one of the French
responses suggested. So, I think that it does make a little bit of a
difference. If you asked this same question to an older audience, you
would get more negative responses than we gave. However, the negative
responses would be passive-negative instead of active-negative. I don't
really know when this change is...maybe once you get out of university
and start leading the life of an adult?

To
respond to Louis' question about how we interact with our professors,
for me it is very informal and amicable. My professors certainly
address me by my first name. In some cases when I know the professor
very well, he will actually call me by a nickname, like "Mags", because
that's what my friends often call me. In most cases I also refer to my
professor by his/her first name (Joel, Larry, Les, Jan, etc). I'm not
sure that all students do this, and I have some professors who want to
be addressed more formally with their last name (Professor Glicksman).
I think this partially depends on the age of the professor, but it also
has something to do with class size. When students at MIT become
upperclassmen, the size of each course becomes smaller. This means that
each student gets to know the professor much better, and this usually
leads to a friendly relationship. In my case, I am an Architecture
major, so my coursework is based a lot on discussions with my professor
aobut my projects. These are often individual discussions, so each
student communicates a lot with the professor. In other
specializations, though, this kind of contact might not exist. Is it
always the case that you call your professors by their last name? Is
there ever any situation in which you would call them by their first
name? For example, if you do research on a regular basis with one
professor, and you get to know them well, would you then call them by
their first name?

I
have found that formality is linked to geographic region. I am from a
town in New Jersey near New York city, so I grew up in a more formal,
professional atmosphere. One summer I had an internship at an engine
company in the Midwest and I was quite shocked at how informal everyone
acted. My supervisor, his boss, and the CEO of the company all wanted
to be called by their first names. The same was true for anyone I met
in town. If I used a Mr./Mrs./Miss I was always told to call people by
their first name, regardless of how old they were. Are their any
regions in France that are known for using less formal language than
others?

I
had similar an experience. When I was interning this summer, my boss
definitely preferred to be called by his first name. In fact, everyone
at the company went by first names, even when they're very high up. How
do people address their boss(es) in France? Are you on a first name
basis?

I
was born in a Spanish speaking country, so when I learned English I was
wondering why there was only the informal "you" for everyone, instead
of a more formal way to adress professors, etc. I guess this might have
something to do with the fact that the students at Polytechnique find
it inappropriate that a bank employer adress them by first name. At
least here at MIT< the employees at the bank make an effort to read
off your name and try to start a friendly conversation. Would friendly
conversations also be innapropriate to have with someone you expect to
adress you by your last name?

To
respond to Louis' question regarding addressing professors, I found
that it was always best to address them formally when I was an
undergrad. However, when I graduated and started a Ph.D. program, they
then requested me to call them by their first name. So although I was
only one year older then before, the change in my professional status
prompted a change in our relationships.

Une
information sur ce problème, Nicolas Sarkozy demande tous les
gendarmeries et policiers à vouvoyer les habitants des quartiers. Une
fois j'ai tutoyé une professeur jeune, un amis français m'a tapé pour
m'avertir, mais la prof n'avait rien dit et n'éprouvait aucune émotion.
Donc tout dépend de personne à qui tu t'adresses. Pour les gens qui
servent à la cantine, je les tutoye toujours. Cela peut approcher la
relation s'ils sont plustôt moins serieux.

Excusez moi de déborder un peu sur le sujet de la discussion.

Mais j'ai une question qui s'adresse à tout le monde (français
et américains) concernant le travail de la femme. En France, il y a une
grande différence entre les salaires des hommes et des femmes. J'ai une
amie qui travaille au sein d’une grande entreprise française (Eiffage)
et qui a vu sur la grille des salaires qu'il y a une différence de 1000
euros (~ 50%) entre hommes et femmes appartenant à la même grille( même
diplôme, même expérience)...A quoi est du cette énorme
différence?existe-elle aux USA?Les hommes et les femmes sont-ils
imposable de la même manière?....Je peux vous confirmer qu'au Maroc où
on prétend maltraiter les femmes qu'il n y a pas de discrimination
sexiste au niveau des salaires ni dans le public ni dans le privée. Je
ne fais pas cette dernière remarque pour interpeller mes amis français
mais juste pour manifester mon étonnement vis-à-vis de cette inégalité
sociale que j’ai du mal à comprendre. Veuillez me pardonner encore une
fois cette intervention Ť hors sujet ť

In
response to Tarek's question, yes, there still is generally a
discrepancy in the salaries of men and women doing the same jobs with
the same qualifications. However, I don't think the difference is
nearly as high as 50%. I could be wrong, but I think that the percent
difference is significantly lower here in the U.S.

The
current gender/wage gap in the US is around 80%. This is a subject that
I find personally very interesting, so I have done a lot of reading on
it. Current thought on the wage gap centers on a lot of reasons- some
sexist and some not. One explanation is that women are less likely to
take jobs involving high personal risk or discomfort (like relocating
to a less cosmopolitan area), which translates into less pay. Another
theory is that women are less likely to negotiate their salaries and
therefore start at lower pay than men. This means that even if raises
are given equally to men and women, the woman will consistently make
less. Neither of these explanations is blatantly sexist. However, I
think they imply a bit of sexism with regard to how each gender is
"supposed to" behave. Men are taught to just go after what they want,
while women are more likely to question whether they really
need/deserve something, ie. The man asks for a higher salary because he
thinks he can get it, while the woman decides the given salary is
enough to get by on and just accepts it. Issues like this need to be
addressed if the wage gap is totally going to close.