I was surprised to see that you had such differing ideas from us about individualism. In general, we thought individualism was important and good, while you said it was selfish and not productive.  Why do you think individualism is not productive? 

réponses américaines qui apparaissent le plus souvent: unique

réponses françaises qui apparaissent le plus souvent:égoisme

Connotations positives, négatives ou neutres? Notez des exemples:

I think it is mostly neutral or positive for american (unique,ideals, independence)

but in french, it is more negative. (mauvais, anti social)

Notez ici vos commentaires en français (remarques, hypothèses et questions):

C'est le 4 ème année au Etats-Unis pour moi (je suis de Corée du Sud) et je pense que les américains ne s'inquiétent pas les autres. Ils sont fier de chaque differents characteures.

(ooh.. sorry first for the messy things in the second comment.. I copied and paste to note pad but it still doesn't work. But I don't know how to delete!! And sorry again for the comment, I misunderstood in some point.)

One of the big differences that I found in america was individualism. In here, I guess people do not care that much about how they behave, how they wear, how they think compared to others. I can't generalize to every american because I was only in MIT (not in general US) for 4 years so you should keep in mind the MIT society as well.

However, being individual doesn't mean that they are not nice people. America, was the place that changed my concepts about individualism because it is not always that individualism is directly correlated to "negative things". It is more like respecting other people's privacy. But in some parts of US, (such as a cable TV show or gossip magazine) people would like to know what others do. (that is actually very interesting)

The French responses were generally negative which wasn't really a surprise. I think that in a smaller, socialist country less individualism and more of a group mindset is essential

I was surprised that the American responses were so varied but generally positive, and I think that comes from the nature of the US federalist system.  There are 50 different states each with their own state flag, bird, flower, laws, etc etc and when you add in the geographic diversity of the US it seems like a big push against individualism would surely fail.

By and large, "Individualism" was the most impressive category, because it shows a stark contrast between the two perspectives: the Americans' "benign self-expression" versus the French's "mauvais égocentrisme." I am neither American nor French (in fact Bulgarian), but I partly subscribe to both views: individualism as necessary for preserving self-independence but also as possibly detrimental to being a worthy member of society.

Kirrah, you pointed out that France is a socialist country. What makes you say that?

Bonjour Saloni,

en fait, c'est négatif car cela empêche les gens de s'ouvrir aux autre ; il y a un sondage à la TV française, l'autre jour, qui disait que la cause principale du sentiment d'exclusion était du à l'individualisme.

kIRRAH?

la FRANCE N'EST PAS UN PAYS SOCIALISTE, loin de là!!!! En ce moment, le gouvernement est tout sauf socialiste!

Hi Clément,

I find your point that individualism doesn't allow people to be open to others to be very interesting. In America, mots people believe that you can be unique and individualistic while still being open to other people's ideas and being able to work in groups. For example, at MIT the culture is to work together. However, we show our individualism in the ideas we have and the groups we join.

In France, is there a general opinion that you are more productive and creative in a group setting?

Bonsoir Clément 

Please dont shout, it's not necessary.  I am certain that you know much more about French government than I do, but these comments reflect my current understanding of the situation. 

President Sarkozy and the current government are more conservative/right leaning however the Parti Socialiste is also huge in France and has socialist views.  Therefore socialism and its influences are present in France to a much greater extent than in the US, where a mainstream political candidate is under much scrutiny if they appear to follow socialist principles.

About the "socialiste".

I heard that in france, if you are living in a house within certain range of rent you can get support from government. (Is it right?) We can't say everything about the france with this one fact but I think at least we can lead to an idea that the national policy is more concentrated in "welfare". This can be linked to the idea of "individualism" a little bit.

Then I have a question about the budget, how the french goverment supports these budget? How do they make money? Is france wealthy enough to support not only france but also greece? If the french government didn't support greece, would you guys think it is egoist?

Clément,

I don't understand what the phrase "les gens de s'ouvrir aux autre." Can you explain what you mean?

Also, I think that a lot of Americans see France as leaning more toward socialism in comparison to America. I'm not saying it's good or bad, but I think we use our country's political views as sort of a political ruler, if you will.

Dayun,

tu as raison de dire que c'est à cause de notre système de protection sociale, qui est basé sur la solidarité, que nous considérons l'individualisme comme négatif; la sécurité sociale française est basée sur le partage: tout le monde paie, et tout le monde peut en profiter. Si je ne suis pas malade, tant mieux pour moi, mais je ne paie pas moins que si j'étais très malade; c'est notre solidarité.

Pour Saloni:

oui, en France, on considère qu'on est + productif en groupe; si je dis à mon patron que je ne veux pas travailler en équipe, que je fais cavalier seul, je serai sans doute mal considéré et je perdrais peut-être mon travail; c'est pour ça que le mot est négatif pour nous. C'est comme un défaut.

I took this whole idea in a much less political way; I related most words back to the idea of self-expression. In America, I often hear the phrase "Be who you want to be," or "It doesn't matter what anyone else thinks of you." Perhaps people in France are more aware of the thoughts and opinions of others, and fitting in is a way of respecting others.

bonjour

Descartes est un peu le précurseur de l'individualisme dans le monde phylosophique c'est pourquoi les français associent souvent l'individualisme à Descartes. 

certains d'entre vous on utilisé le mot pionier pour l'individualisme. pourquoi?

Saloni,

un être cartésien, qui applique la théorie de DESCARTES, est quelqu'un qui utilise la raison pour trouver la vérité, et qui pense que la vérité est au fond de chacun de nous, accessible par notre raisonnement, et non pas à travers la religion par exemple. Je sais, c'est un peu compliqué, mais je ne suis pas vraiment d'accord avec Jean Philippe, car ce n'est pas de l'individualisme;

Pioneers had a very difficult life, moving westward where there was no 'American' civilization before them ( of course there were American Indian civilizations who were very well established ! ) and because they were the first white people in their areas, pioneers had to create civilizations out of wilderness.  They are associated with individualism because they cannot strictly follow the latest trends from the East Coast when they are thousands of miles away, they had to partially create their own subcultures. 

Les Français ont tendance à voir l'individualisme comme un défaut, quelque chose de mal, car nous avons un système de sécurité sociale qui fait que nous valorisons plus la solidarité (en théorie). Aux Etats-Unis, la protection sociale est moins courante (assurance maladie pas obligatoire par exemple) et il y a beaucoup moins de partis de gauche, en tout cas pas comme en France.

Le contexte historique est aussi différent : les Français et la révolution, les américains et leurs pionniers... bref, tout ça explique que nous n'avons pas le même point de vue.

@Megan:

s'ouvrir aux autres veut dire aller vers les autres, parler, partager des idées...

@Kirrah, tu parles des pionniers et de la conquête de l'ouest: quels sont les rapports des américains d'aujourd'hui avec cette partie de leur histoire, et avec les civilisations indiennes qui existaient avant les pionniers? Pensez-vous à eux quand vous parlez des premiers américains ou aux pionniers?

In elementary school students learn a brief history of the American Indian civilizations, both prior to colonial contact and as it relates to westward expansion in the 1800s.  In the 1960s there was an American Indian civil rights movement alongside the civil rights movements of other minorities.  Since then I believe that they are more visible and also more fairly represented in history and popular culture.  They are still quite a segregated minority though, and not a major part of what is considered "American" history/culture

not sure if i answered your question, it is a very complicated issue in my opinion