- 02:33pm
Oct 11, 2001

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For the Americans, liberty is real, for the french it is an ideal, almost too utopian to be achieved. That is interesting. Also the basis of the US is freedom - individual freedom. Whereas for the french equality and community are also important. However, in some senses the US is less free, you can't drink with till you are 21. Although you are free to have guns at 18!

- 10:42am Oct
14, 2001

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Why do you feel that liberty and freedom are such illusions? I believe, in the US, we definitely have certain very important freedoms and liberties. Is it because you interpret the word liberty differently from us? Does it have a more general and community minded meaning, unlike here, where we think of personal liberties?

- 03:46pm Oct
14, 2001

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Je pense que beaucoup des français pensent, par exemple, aux libre port d'arme(s), quand ils entendent parler de liberte aux USA. En effet, on peut se demander si l'on parle toujours de liberte lorsqu'il s'agit de liberte...de se faire tuer. De meme le mot de "liberte" est apparenté à celui de "libéralisme", doctrine qui reste assez peu en vogue en France. En fait, je crois que les français sont devenu très (trop) cyniques et desabuses vis-a-vis des mots comme liberte, qui leur semblent se vider peu a peu de leur sens. A l'oppose, les Americains restent très (trop) attaches a ces valeurs et ne les critiquent peut-etre pas assez. Il ya exageration dans les deux sens. La liberte peut paraître une idée un peu utopique, mais elle a des manifestations concrètes indiscutables.

- 04:36pm Oct
14, 2001

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Olivier, you are right about the difference between liberty and liberalism. In the US, liberty has connotation of freedom of the individual, while liberalism is seen as a left wing ideology within US political discourse. It is funny, because the orininal liberal thinkers like Locke premised it on individual freedom, while liberalism in the US, like in France, I guess stands for government intervention and support of underprivileged groups.

Do you agree with this? Also, where do you see the balance between individual freedom and group well-being?

- 05:24am Oct
15, 2001

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Il faut bien comprendre que le mot "liberalisme" n'a pas du tout le même sens en français et en americain. En France, il s'agit d'une doctrine purement economique prônant une totale non-intervention de l'Etat dans l'economie du pays (ou presque), se référant aux auteurs dits "neo-liberaux" comme Friedmann ou Van Hayek. Les partis dits libéraux sont généralement situés très à DROITE. Le fait que la France respecte encore fortement l'héritage du welfare-state et de Keynes provoque cette méfiance des français vis-a-vis du mot liberté associé (abusivement) au mot libéralisme (economique).

- 11:25am Oct
15, 2001

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Olivier:

In France, are the doctrines of "liberalism" and the ideas of individual freedoms intertwined? Is that why the French students have given such negative responses to "liberte"? In America, we can't imagine living without our freedoms of speech and the press, among others. How do you feel about those freedoms in France? Do you also think that they are abusive and overly idealistic?

- 09:50am Oct
16, 2001

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I think it is interesting that in the U.S. Liberty is a more of an individualistic idea, and in France there seems to be a colective component to it.

first does anyone agree with me? second, how has history, or culture shaped this view?

- 05:23am Oct
21, 2001

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Je ne crois pas que toutes les libertes individuelles soient associees au liberalisme en France. Le liberalisme n'est qu'une theorie economique. Par contre ce mĂŞme liberalisme peut avoir des effets NEFASTES sur les libertes individuelles, et cela au nom de la libertĂŠ!