School

École

applications

campus.
friends. future.

college

college

college,
education, teacher

friends,culture

fun,
boring, fruitful

hard,
work

homework,
classes, teachers

homework,
learning, problem sets

learn,
stress

learning,
friends

Life,homework,study

MIT
work itneresting

MIT,
ass rammage, fun, friends

MIT,
evil

MIT,
learning, students

MIT,
work, engineering

pencil,
stress, homework

Ponce
Middle

study,
research, grades, diplomas.

study,
understand, MIT

university,
children

work
discipline

work,
library, tired

work,
exams, classes

work,
friends, teachers

work,
fun, learning

work,
MIT

work,
stress

work,
time, college

work,stress,winter

apprendre

apprendre, communauté

apprentissage, éveil

connaissance, contrainte

connaissance,savoir,liberté

cours, devoirs

Éducation

éducation, études,
diplôme

éducation,socialisation

élevés, avancer

étude, élève

insertion, culture, vie professionelle

leçon, professeur,
copains

livres,travail,professeur

math, profs, boulot

Nécessaire, épuisant

Prepa, Math

primaire, professeurs

professeur,commerce,étudiants

professeur,éducation,élève

rencontres

rencontres,culture,enrichissement,épanouissement

République, égalité

Telecom INT

travail, diplôme, vie

éducation, vocation,obligation

éducation,travail,classe

élève, cours,
apprentissage

élèves, professeurs,
savoir

épanouissement personnel,connaissance,enrichissement

études, rencontre, apprendre

Discussion

- 10:24am
Oct 12, 2001

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Il est interessant de voir la diiférence de point de vue concernant l'école. Le mot travail ressort beaucoup plus chez les étudiants americains. Les étudiants français mettent plus en avant le côté éducatif de l'école ainsi que son rôle d'insertion. Il est vrai qu'en France, l'école est souvent vue comme un facteur d'insertion sociale. Mais l'école peut également devenir un facteur de discrimination lorsqu'il s'agit de faire des études supérieurs. Même si les coûts restent largement inférieurs aux prix des universités americaines, tout le monde ne peut pas se permettre d'intégrer une école de commerce.

- 11:42am Oct
14, 2001

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It is interesting to see how school and work are viewed in the US. French students seem to focus more on the positive aspects of school. It seems like MIT students are too stressed out and don't appreciate the positive aspects of school.

- 02:56pm Oct 14,
2001

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La plupart des étudiants ici (à l'INT) sortent de la classe preparatoire où on travail vraiment tous les jours et on y travaille vraiment comme des fous! En entrant dans une grande école comme INT, nous nous sentons plus libre qu'avant. C'est pourquoi on est "moins stressé"! Est-ce que vous connaissez le système d'éducation français?

- 05:42pm Oct 14,
2001

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Yes Han, I think I know what you're talking about. The French Baccalaureate
is one of the most challenging and, as a result, rewarding high school education
systems in the world. We followed the International Baccalaureate system in
my high school so I have, perhaps, a closer sense of just how stressful your
high school life was like than my American counterparts at MIT. I think there
is a huge transition, in terms of stress, between American high schools and
MIT -- I felt it myself even though I took the IB, I think this is a fairly
unique property of MIT.

On another note, I was extremely impressed by the positive choice of wording that the INT students used in describing education. I myself wanted to express the same sentiment when I wrote "study, understand" for me education is about understanding and exploring (that's what I meant by study -- explore, I don't know why I didn't type explore though.. hmm...) The French students however had wonderful connotations like: eye-opening, and enriching, and rewarding... it's great to see people appreciating the unique advantages they have as students in institutions such as INT and MIT.

Is it only INT students that really appreciate their education the way they seem to or do most French people think the same way?

- 12:10am
Oct 15, 2001

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In response to Han:

We are told that the French school system is more demanding than the American one, but it is difficult to really "know" the French system without having experienced it.

On another note, the students at MIT, and I'm sure at INT as well, are unusual in that, for the most part, we challenged ourselves as much as possible in high school (and before). I think this probably biases our reflections on the word "school."

- 11:17pm Oct
15, 2001

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Although I expected to find more negative, pessimistic words that MIT students could possible associate with the word "School," I was surprised to find an equal amount of positive and negative responses. As often as MIT students described school as being stressful, apparently, we still consider school to be fun. I also noted that the french students seemed to associate school with the concept of enrichment or blooming more so than the american students did. Interestingly, both cultures seem to value school more than just as a source of education and knowledge, but more importantly, as being essential for one's future professionally. "Diplomas" seem to be key for both the french and american students =)
In response to Han Lun's remark regarding the french educational system, it is a sense of relief to know that MIT students are not the only ones who can associate school with being "evil." It appears our TransAtlantic friends are suffering along with us. ~Shirley

- 12:10am Oct
16, 2001

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Han,

I understand that you prepare for exams for a few years prior to beginning L'INT. At L'INT, what type of classes do you take, and how does that compare with those from your years before L'INT? I also wonder when French students begin to specialize in a field of studies. I also wondering if you feel that there are any particular fields that students to study. For example, it is fairly common to find students nationally studying biology or chemistry in preparation for medical school. Are there any such equivalences in France? Does the French education often prepare students in the arts and sciences or does it often prepare students towards a certain profession such as a chef or an accoutant or a teacher?

--Jeff

- 01:08am Oct
16, 2001

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Hmm... interesting! It seems like we are all working a lot at MIT and at the INT. Perhaps we could try to quantify a little this notion. For me for instance, a normal week at MIT consists of 7 days of work probably studying 8-10 hours a day. How many hours per week do you guys study on average at the INT?

-Claudio

- 02:05am Oct
16, 2001

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I think instead of breaking down and comparing the daily workload's of MIT students and INT students, it would be interesting to further understand the two different societys' expectations of a student.

What do your parents enforce upon you in terms of academics? What do they expect out of your studies and your college education? What pressures do you encounter from society to excel in school?
~Shirley

- 02:59am Oct
16, 2001

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Regarding the list of words chosen by MIT students, one realizes the intensity of stress and work at this university. Few schools are as demanding as MIT. Thus, the responses that we submitted are not an accurate reflection of the thoughts of most American college undergrads. Does the postive attitude of INT students toward school correspond with the views of the majority of French undergrads?

- 05:39pm Oct 16,
2001

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C'est interessant de savoir quelqu'un qui a fait le Bac dans l'autre côte de l'Atlantic! Bon, pour repondre à tous, je vais vous donner un petit résumé de ce qu'on fait après le Bac(après high school).
Pour les futur ingénieurs comme pour les futurs managers, normalement nous passons 2 ans ou 3 ans de classe preparatoire après le Bac. C'est quoi la classe preparatoire (prepa)? Pour ce qui ferait une école d'ingenieur (comme Télécom INT), la prepa est un cursus très très scientifique .. on fait des mathématiques, physique, chimie, science pour l'ingenieur et la philosophie. Après 2 ans de prepa, on assist à plusieurs concours afin d'intégrer une grande école. La prepa s'appelle comme ça car on nous prepare pour les concours. En prepa, on travaille beaucoup (practiquemment tous les jours, y compris le dimanche et les vaccances) car les concours sont très très compétitive. Par exemple pour le concours de l'INT, seulement 10% (dit moi si j'ai faux) de ceux qui sont inscrits sont admis.
C'est à INT que l'on commence à spécialiser. Après 2/3 ans de maths, physique et chimie purs, on commence à faire de l'ingénieurie surtout dans le domaine de télécommunication (équivalent of computer science + électrical électronics engineering) et aussi à développer notre côte "humaine" avec la formation humaine.

- 05:44pm Oct 16,
2001

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Pour répondre à Nasheed, je crois que la plupart des étudiants dans les grandes écoles ont une attitude plutôt positive envers l'école. Mais si tu demande la même question à quelqu'un en classe preparatoire, il va surement te donner les mots comme "stresse, difficile, travail..etc " =)
Mais je trouve que vous êtes tous très très positive envers l'école... même si vous avez beaucoup de travail, vous repondez quand même vivement au forum!! =)=)=)

- 08:06pm Oct
16, 2001

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It is clear to me that all of us have worked hard to become the students we are today. All of us seem to share some of the same work ethic that has brought us each this far. However, I know that MIT is one of the top schools in the United States, and that our views are not necessarily shared by all students in the US. I have friends at other schools who seem to care little for classes and work, spend more time partying than studying, and announce that they have failed classes with a seeming sense of pride. Many students elsewhere (and sometimes here at MIT) perform poorly not because they are unable to succeed, but because they choose not to. Would you ever find people like this in France?

- 07:32pm
Oct 17, 2001

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Je pense que c'est à peu près partout la même chose. Dans chaque école, tu as des étudiants qui vont travailler énormément pour avoir les meilleurs résultats possibles. C'est une sorte de fierté personnelle. Et puis tu as ceux qui vont participer à toutes les soirées et rater leurs examens. Cela dépend des personnes. En tout cas, lorsque nous arrivons à l'INT, nous avons l'impression de ne plus beaucoup travailler car nous travaillions énormément en classe préparatoire. Pour la plupart nous ne faisions rien d'autre que préparer nos concours. Nous avons maitenant le temps de nous investir dans des associations ou de faire du sport. Ce sont aussi des activités qui prennent du temps mais qui ne sont pas vues comme des contraintes car nous avons choisi de nous y investir.

engage