- 09:13pm
Oct 21, 2001

(#

1

of 11)

Hi everyone,

We were asked to put all of the responses into broad categories, and two of the categories that I chose were: "complains politely," "complains bitterly/angrily." While it was quite easy to categorize the American responses, categorizing the French responses was quite difficult because I think depends upon slight connotations in meaning that I cannot recognize.

If my guesses are correct, then by percentage, the Americans and French overwhelmingly respond with a polite protest if someone cuts in line. By percentage, more Americans would respond angrily, and about the same number wouldn't care at all. By percentage, a few more Americans resolved to be indignant and say nothing.

In any case, I think the reactions depend very much on the milieu. In That is, the extent to which someone reacts in a polite way of course depends upon whether he was raised as a gentleman or as a brute. That is, perhaps in this case, differences in reaction are as much or more closely correlated with socio-economic status as with cultural background.

What are your thoughts?

Wes

- 03:37am Oct
22, 2001

(#

2

of 11)

Qu'est-ce qu'il de plus chiant qu'une file d'attente? Surtout quand au supermarché quand on l'impression que seule notre queue n'avance pas et qu'un incident survient qui nous fait perdre des minutes qui nous paraissent trop précieuses tout à coup.
Je déteste attendre en général, mais dans des situations irritantes, je préfère garder mon calme. De toutes les façons, il y a presque toujours quelqu'un pour manifester l'indignation générale. Etes-vous de ces gens là qui rouspestent toujours dans les queues ici ou ailleurs? Remarque, je ne les en veux pas car c'est preuve de spontanéité . Mais bon dieu, qu'ils sont énervants!

- 08:46am
Oct 22, 2001

(#

3

of 11)

Lorsque j'étais en Angleterre, j'ai remarqué quelque chose d'assez surprenant. Lorsqu'ils attendent le bus, ils vont tous gentiment la queue devant l'arrêt de bus. Ainsi le premier arrivé sera le prmier à s'asseoir dans le bus quand celui-ci arrivera. En France, il y a une sorte d'amas devant l'arrêt et lorsque le bus arrive, tous le monte se pousse. Je me demandais ce qu'il en était aux Etats-Unis.
J'ai l'impression qu'en France, les gens ne respèctent pas du tout les fils d'attente et font tout pour aller plus vite sans respect pour ceux qui attendent. C'est tellement habituel que je ne dis même plus rien.

- 09:38pm Oct
24, 2001

(#

4

of 11)

Hi Capucine, I don't ride the bus much here, I usually take the subway where there's no real line. However, to my limited experience, people are pretty good about boarding the bus in the order that they queued up. Personally I think the extent to which such an incident would irritate me would depend on how much if affected me. If it were a bus line or a supermarket line, I'd board the bus or leave the store either way. However, if it were a line in a movie theater and the tickets got sold out because a bunch of people jumped the queue, I'd be a lot more annoyed. Would you expect to see someone do something like that too?

- 01:41am Oct
25, 2001

(#

5

of 11)

Wes, I find it interesting that you have chosen to link a person's degree of "civility" to their socioeconomic status. Are you trying to say that disadvantaged or underserved populations are less able to handle such situations in a "dignified" manner? That they have been raised as "brutes," to use your word? Forgive me if I am putting words into your mouth, but I find your statement to be somewhat inflammatory as I read it.

- 02:45pm Oct
25, 2001

(#

6

of 11)

I have to reply to Binita. I ride the bus every day, and in my experience people are completely rude. There is no way to tell exactly where the bus will stop and people will go to incredible lengths to get in good strategic positions. People have walked into the road, around the crowd, and stepped back up onto the sidewalk directly in front of me, even when there was a crowd so big behind me that there was physically no room for another body on the sidewalk.

In my experience, Americans do _not_ wait in queues for public transportation, including the subway. I have seen people politely step out of a crowded train to let the people behind them get off, then be unable to reboard because they got shoved out of the way by the crowd. I don't know if it is worse or better here than in France, but the few times I took buses in Paris with my mother and grandmother, I found that people were very polite about letting them board and take seats, whereas in the US I have seen people carrying babies forced to stand on the bus for lack of simple human politeness.

- 01:20am
Oct 26, 2001

(#

7

of 11)

I'd just like to note that the level of general politeness in cities is less in the northeastern U.S. (where we are) than in other areas. For example, people are far more likely to give seats to those in need (pregnant women, the elderly) on a bus in my home state (in the South). The prevalent manners and attitudes vary with region, at least to some extent.

- 04:56pm Oct
27, 2001

(#

8

of 11)

I noticed that most of the responses by the American students and french students in general were polite, but it seemed that more American students than French students would react negatively, which differs from a lot of the other trends I saw in which the French student seems more likely to speak his mind than his American counterpart.

- 10:16pm Oct
28, 2001

(#

9

of 11)

Brian D Hemond (bhemond@MIT.EDU)

I'm not entirely sure which subways and buses most people are referring to: I happen to live close enough to school so I can spend an hour on various buses and trains to get to my house, and I have rarely ever seen anyone jockey for position over another person in line. On many occasions I have seen people vacate seats on crowded buses to let disabled persons sit. Poeple seem to be very polite here. I think that if someone were to cut in front of someone else, many people other than the person directly affected would react quite negatively.

- 12:14am Oct
30, 2001

(#

10

of 11)

Hi Leah,

You're of course absolutely right. I rescind my earlier comment.
There is of course not a necessary connection between socioeconomic status and "civility" -- especially not in the U.S. In some cultures, however, I suggest that there is sometimes a rather striking correlation. In some cultural contexts, one really can make generalizations about differences between how urban professionals and slum-dwellers will react to certain situations, where certainly judgements about "manners" and "civility" are involved. In some cultures, "mob violence" really is more common in the shanties than it is in gated communities of wealthy people. In other cultures, even the poorest deport themselves with dignity and civility. Moreover, even if I feel comfortable making this kind of generalization about one culture, this of course does not mean that there aren't important exceptions to the rule, or that there is something in principle preventing someone who is "low-born" from becoming educated, cultivated, "civil."

Socio-economic status is one factor among several which may in *some*
cultures indicate the likelihood that someone was raised "as a
gentleman" or "as a brute". Since in many cultures this is not a
useful indication at all, and since I didn't preface my earlier
statement by saying this, I take it back.

Wes

- 08:19am
Nov 5, 2001

(#

11

of 11)

Comme le dit Wesley,c'est vrai que parfois le niveau social peut jouer sur les facons d'agir de chacun et donc sur la politesse.Mais bon,comme il le dit ce n'est pas tjs le cas.
Par exemple dans le train le matin,je remarque quand meme que les gens les plus class sont ceux qui s'arrangent pour rentrer les premiers et ne laisseront jamais leur place a une vieille dame....