I want to comment on the different attitudes between the men and the baby as a family. It was interesting to note the different ways the men behaved when they were with the baby alone and when they were together with their apartement-mates. In the French version, the men would individually play and cuddle with Marie but when there was someone else present, they wouldn't. Whereas the American men cuddled with Marie anytime and at all times. When we had studied family relations in the forum previously, a big notable difference is the idea that for the French, family is there to protect its members and for the Americans, family is there for unconditional love. The scene when Pierre had a shouting match with the baby-sitter was a clear sign of his not being to accept the idea that the sitter could harm Marie while outside of his protective arms. In the American film, there was much less of a feeling of protection for Marie. This was clearly shown when Michael and Peter simply just gave Marie to their landlord to take care of. Is it just me, or do the Americans just didn't care nearly as much for the kid? Maybe this goes along with Dinu's idea on e other page about the American characters appearing superficial?
I would like to also comment on the relationship between the men and the baby. I thought that the relationship between the men and the baby in the French film was more structured and organized (if that is possible) than the relationship in the American film. In the French film, it was as though there were imaginary boundaries that existed that the men did not want to cross or thought that others should not cross as well. In the American film, the relationship was much more relaxed in that if someone wanted to care for the baby and love her, they could. There was no structure to speak of or definite boundaries unless it was that complete harm would come to the child. In light of this, I wanted to know if you thought that the key to a good family was structure or that it be more relaxed. Also, is the divorce rate high in France?
The relationship between the men and their friends was not interupted in the American version of the film. During the French version however, the party with their friends was ruined and they had to cancel plans and not go to work in order to take care of Mary. I wonder if this is a reflection of how we value close relationships over close family relationships here.
I thought it was interesting that the American men took the baby out to the park in order to attract women, whereas the French men feared than having the women discover the baby would actually drive them away. Also, when the men sang lullabies to the baby, the American woman (Rebecca) found it very sweet, whereas the French woman got annoyed (bored?) and left. Do you guys in France have a better idea of why she left?
To go along with what Jee wrote, I also found it intersting that the French woman left. But she didn't seem upset when she left, I thought she was more bored than anything else. Well, it could also be because Jacque wasn't the good lover that French men are supposedly made out to be. =P But also, this leads me to the question of what French females think of men with little kids and or dogs. It is a belief in the US that if a guy walks down the nice street or a park by himself with a toddler or a dog, he'd attract lots of females. The belief behind it is that men who take care of kids and pets are more sensitive and understanding. Is there anything like that in France?
There are many differences between the relationship of characters in the different versions of the movie.
In the French version, Jacques' mother cannot take care of Marie because she is going on vacation. In the American version, Jack's mother will not take care of Mary because she wants to teach Jack a lesson in responsibility. Is this at all indicative of what would happen in reality?
I also found a difference in the way the 'Peter' character treated the woman in the farmacy. It seemed to me that in the French version both (Peter and Michael) seem to treat the lady with respect as if they don't want to miss any word she is saying. While in the American version, as the scene develops, Peter treats her with less respect every time. He's losing his patience and instead of hearing what she has to say, he insults her and tells her she's responsible of making him so confused.
ANd I never understood why they did want the landlord to be around or to look at the baby, specially in the France version. Can someone explain that to me?
I agree with Catherine on the Dog issue...it's worked for me...I've never tried a baby though. In response to Jee's comment about the lady getting bored and leaving in response to the singing. I think this is also related to her being just another random one of Jack's girls. It was a fitting little punishment for Jack and a sign of the superficial nature of his relationships with women. In the American version, the female, Rebecca, is Peter's long term significant other. I think it shows the striking difference in the relationships held by the two men. In response to Lizmarie's comment about the pharmacy, I agree that there is a lack of respect in the American version, but I wonder if it is related to the difference in profession. In the French version she is a pharmacist. In the American version she is just a supermarket employee. I think Americans show a different level of respect for these two professions. Does anybody have any thoughts on why the two directors used different locations for purchasing baby supplies?
Good morning everybody! Matt brought up the issue of male-female relationships portrayed in both movies... Let me share my thoughts with you. I think that watching this movie as a male (something I could never do ; ) must be pretty flattering -- the men (in both versions) are pressed to make quick and tough choices as well as to stand up to some sudden challenges. Although struggling at times, they accomplished their tasks just fine.
Now, watching this movie as a woman sucks! In both versions and for all the men women seem to be sex objects only. And if in the American version some partnership between Rebecca and Peter is shown, and if Rebecca comes across as an opinionated individual with (some) spine of her own, all the French women (including Sylvia) are rather mute chicks who, additionally, get wasted at the party...
Hey, what do French women (and men) think of that?
Je voudrais commenter la relation entre les personnages du film et la police; dans le film français, les hommes n'hésitent pas à s'en moquer, à la narguer. D'un autre côté, dans le film américain, les personnages en ont peur, et n'osent pas la contredire.
Dans le même ordre d'idée, le personnage policier qui perd son emploi dans le film français m'a semblé intéressant par la scène où il apparait après avoir perdu son emploi... Il m'a semblé qu'il était là pour montrer qu'un ancien policier pouvait être en fait quelqu'un de sympathique (une fois qu'il n'est plus policier!!)
Et enfin, je voudrais faire remarquer que dans le film français, les policiers ne découvrent rien, et n'ont jamais rien de plus que des soupçons, alors que dans le film américain, on insiste sur le fait qu'il faut absolument aider la police, pour finalement triompher du MAL, et emprisonner les trafiquants.
It was most interesting to me the differences in the way Jack's mother reacted to helping with the baby in the two movies. In the American movie, she tells Jack he has to take responsibility for his own actions so she is not going to take Mary. In the French version, she says she is going on vacation. I was wondering if you think this is related to the following idea: "jusqu'à 18 ans, il est difficile et rare d'avoir son indépendance, excepté dans les cas où l'adolescent travaille déjà où est loin de ses parents." Maybe there is a difference between the parents' expectations for independence?
I thought the reasons for leaving Marie/Mary were interesting. French Sylvia wanted to torture and annoy Jacques, whereas the American (or British, rather-I don't know where that came from!) Sylvia really couldn't handle it and needed Jack's help. Do you guys feel any more/less sympathy towards either Sylvia for their reasons for leaving the baby with Jacques/Jack?
to Matthew: as a man, where would you go to buy food? to the supermarket I would guess. Also, I think superkarmets are more common in America than France. Probably in France the only place where you can find baby food is the pharmacy (but we have to confirm this with our French friends).
Je ne suis pas d'accord avec toi Jee Y, la Sylvia francaise ne fait pas du tout ca pour embeter Jacques, elle le fait exactement pour les memes raisons que la Sylvia anglaise , s'il y a une scene ou Jacques est enerve au telephone contre Sylvia fra, cela ne demontre en rien que Sylvia fra fasse cela pour l'embeter, d'ailleurs la suite du film le montre parfaitement. Je peux tout a fait comprendre dans tous les cas le point de vue de Sylvia, ce n'est evidemment pas facile pour elle, mais bon c'est son enfant c'est donc a elle et a Jacques de l'assumer et de s'en occuper, de toute facon je pense que les personnages sont attachants dans les films, enfin surtout en version francaise ou ils sont beaucoup moins artificiels, ce sont d'ailleurs tous ces petits defauts qui les rendent humains et nous les rendent attachants qui font la difference entre eux et des machines a sourire.
Chere Mariya, et bien on peut trouver tout un tas de choses pour les bebes aussi dans les supermarches en France (le film date un peu), enfin je ne suis pas vraiment l'expert...
Le thème de l'histoire est globalement le même. Il s'agit d'élever un enfant pendant un moment.Cependant les reactions et comportement des personnages ne sont pas identiques et reflètent certainement les différences culturelles qui existent entre la France et les Etats-Unis. Le fait d'avoir un enfant à charge dans la version française isole considérablement les trois hommes qui ont des relations tendues aussi bien avec les personnes exterieures qu'entre eux mêmes. On ressent beaucoup la nervosité et la frustration du côté français. Alors que du côté américain les relations sont plus cools et les trois hommes arrivent à bien s'entendre et ils ne sont pas coupés de la vie quotidienne car ils sortent avec le bébé. Le fait d'aller autravail avec le bébé ne pose pas de problème dans la version américaine. Les américains semblent aussi plus accueillants car les ttrois hommes sont prèts à aller jusqu'à construire une nouvelle chambre pour accueillir la mère de l'enfant, ce qui n'est absolument pas le cas dans la version française.
Dans les différentes scènes jouées par les trois hommes, il me semble que dans la version française, les acteurs parlent moins et laissent plus facilement la place au silence (par exemple lorsque jacques revient de son voyage et arrive dans l'appartement) et je pense que cette attitude, ce choix du réalisateur, révèle la pudeur, voire la gène que semblent ressentir les trois hommes à propos de leur attachement pour marie. A vrai dire, il me paraît dommage que dans la version américaine les acteurs parlent trop, trop vite et même crient (la scène de la découverte du bébé) ce qui m'a personnellement filé la migraine!
Pour répondre à Katherine, le fait d'emmener son chien dans un parc est aussi très efficace en France!