Globalement les réactions sont similaires. Des deux côtés, il y a des gens qui surveillent, d’autres qui ne disent et ne font rien et enfin certains qui vont lui parler. Personne ne l’encourage à continuer (rassurant) !
Pensez-vous que nous ayons une vision des soirées et un rapport avec l’alcool à peu prêt identique? Et si oui, comment se fait-ce? Pensez vous que les séries TV et les films jouent un rôle la dedans?

Je suis plutôt d’accord avec Guillaume mais j’aimerais revenir sur un point que je n’ai pas compris dans l’une des réponse, qu’est ce que “I would joke with them to “staaahhpppp”” veut dire ?

The reactions between the French and Americans are very similar, but it is interesting that many French responses said things like “c’est sont choix” and “je ne fait rien”. I wonder if this is because the French have a different culture and attitude around alcohol, so they recognize that binge drinking is a conscious choice? What is the attitude around alcohol in France?

Des soirées que je fréquentes et de ce que j’en vois je dirais qu’il y a toujours quelques personnes qui ont un peu trop abusé sur la quantité. Cependant, il n’ai, du moins à ma connaissance, jamais arrivé de malheur. Et je ne pense pas que ce soit de la chance. La ou les personnes ayant trop bu sont gérés par leurs amis. Je pense que beaucoup on répondu en omettant la partie “un ami” en la remplaçant inconsciemment par “une connaissance”. En tout cas pour ma part j’ai plus visualisé une personne que je connais de vue qu’un ami pour la question. Ceci explique surement le grand nombre de réponse du style “c’est son choix”, “je ne fais rien”…
Dans notre école, le BDE (Bureau Des Élèves) organise quelques soirées où tous étudiants de l’école se retrouve et même des amis externes se joignent. Cela est très sympa de pouvoir discuter avec ses camarades dans une autre ambiance que les cours, cela manquait beaucoup en prépa où nous passions énormément de temps ensemble mais immergé dans nos cours… De plus, lors de ces soirées il y a des membres du BDE qui tiennent justement un stand infirmerie pour gérer les éventuels étudiants un peu trop ivre.
Avez-vous aussi des soirées de temps en temps dans l’année que vous organisez vous-même?

@hera: En France les gens commencent à boire bien plus jeune. A nos âges (+-21 ans) les gens connaissent déjà plutôt bien leurs limites. On est peut être moins inquiets.
Forcément on adopte quand même des attitudes responsables (surtout pour la conduite en état d’ébriété). Mais l’équivalent du binge drinking est globalement assumé à notre âge.
@guillaume: Le BDE c’est les meilleurs.

I think that partying and drinking in general have a lot of similarities between France and the United States. @guillaume it would seem that TV and movies give people certain ideas and perceptions about partying and the party atmosphere and those party ideals persist in both countries.
One thing I noticed is that there are more comments including actions on the American side. It seems like a lot of the French comments were passive and involved just looking after the person subtly. Overall though, it would seem like there is a common theme of making sure the person does not get into too much trouble and making sure they are safe. Does France often have the spectator problem where no one acts when they see someone in trouble because everyone expects someone else will take care of it?

I feel like the relationship with alcohol on both sides are subtly different. While both sides include responses that would suggest there’s this sense that you’re keeping an eye on your friend, this is much more evident on the American side than on the French side. I feel this has more to do with how people respond to drunk people than the person themselves getting drunk. Getting drunk is honestly a harmless thing (just a bit of dehydration, really, and possibly hangovers the next day), which may explain why the French aren’t too concerned. But for Americans, especially in a college environment, there is the worry of “predators” looking to take advantage of your drunk friend, so that negative stigma makes us more aware of which of our friends are drunk. While I’m sure this is a problem on the French side, would you say it is as concerning to the French that someone at this party might take advantage of your drunk friend?

To answer Guillaume, we sometimes have events thrown by the student body but they’re usually dry, since roughly ¾ of students are underage. Most parties at MIT are thrown by frats. Do you have greek life at your university? What is a common drinking environment?

I was very surprised by the number of French responses that said “it’s their choice, I don’t care” (only one person on the American side said that). At most universities, and at least at MIT, we have a ton of posters and awareness/education programs and initiatives that not only warn students to monitor their own selves while drinking, but also encourage people to take care of one another if someone is too drunk. In my opinion, saying you wouldn’t do anything is sort of rude because at the point where someone is too drunk, they don’t really know what they’re doing anymore and they often need someone to steer them in the right direction before something bad happens.

Do your universities have similar awareness programs to encourage fellow students to monitor each other’s drinking?

So I found this very interesting since they both mention watching over a friend or checking on them and that was it from the French side. None mentioned watching over a friend because they’re too drunk or preventative methods. The American side however mentioned a few intervention steps that some may take. As mentioned above I feel this definitely correlates to universities and drinking culture but I feel more so the drinking age. Since it’s 18 in France, kids have an understanding of their limit by the time they are on their own in university (hence reactions such as it’s their choice). But in the US the drinking age is 21 resulting in a lot of people not drinking for the first time until they’re out of their parent’s home surrounded by other inexperienced drinkers (resulting in a more communal/intervention heavy mindset when drinking). Do the French students think that could be an influential reason or am I missing anything?

The French tend to be more apathetic. In America, there is a stereotype of college students being reckless with alcohol and parties. MIT has made it a priority to ensure that there is a lot of awareness. Does a similar stereotype exist in France?

I agree with the last few comments and observations on this forum. One question that I would add regards the idea of “binge-drinking.” Is there this concept in France of “binge-drinking” or drinking just for the sake of drinking? I was wondering what the influence of a younger drinking age has on the commonality of this concept.

Out of curiosity, can any of you over in France remember a time when someone at a party got drunk and was taken advantage of? There’s so much awareness here in the US to prevent that kind of stuff from happening, so I’m wondering how different it is for you guys.

@Remi - I think what you said about the age difference makes sense, since most French college students are already of the legal age limit while the opposite is true for most American students.

I wonder if there’s also a different attitude when it comes to alcohol between countries. In the US, we talk about alcohol like it’s something to be avoided - conversations about alcohol tend to revolve around subjects like drunk driving or alcohol poisoning. I think hearing about alcohol-related reckless behavior might contribute to binge drinking, as if it were a reverse-psychology effect.

I’m ethnically Chinese and my parents have had a lot of French influence in their lives (they met in Paris), so I never grew up with that kind of thinking. My parents have always told me that wine is something to be savored and we will drink a glass when we have nice dinners, and they don’t keep hard alcohol in the house. They have always let me try their drinks - age limits don’t really exist in China and even when we were in Canada / the States, we usually only drank in the house, so it didn’t matter that I was underage. I learned about tasting wine and what kinds of things I liked / didn’t like, so when I got to college I found that I didn’t ever feel the urge to binge drink (I have yet to get black out drunk and I don’t ever plan to, and I’m a senior!). Of course, it helped that I was used to lighter alcohols like wine, so most hard alcohols just taste really bad to me, but I wonder if growing up in a culture that is more accepting of alcohol helped me avoid binge drinking and alcohol abuse. I have found that I’m a lot better at pacing myself and stopping before anything gets out of hand than a lot of my friends.

Could any of you explain what the culture around alcohol is like and what conversations of alcohol are about in France? Also, I think a lot of college students are away from home for the first time and feel like (underage) drinking is a good way to rebel - does that happen in France at all?

While I definitely agree that the mentality surrounding underage drinking might lead college students in France and the Untied States to view drinking differently, I was really surprised that both groups did not give similar responses to this prompt. As others have mentioned, schools put a strong emphasis on watching out for your friends and helping to ensure the safety of others around you in hopes to prevent sexual assault. I feel like this notion of responsibility for ones friends should be similar between the two countries as it doesn’t relate to the mentality surrounding binge drinking, but rather to sexual assault prevention and ensuring the safety of one’s friends.

@ Mathieu:

“Staaaahhhhp” is just a different, more casual, more slang-oriented version of saying “stop” and I think that whoever wrote the response was trying to imply that they would tell the person to stop in a casual way without making the person feel like he/she was being instructed or parented. This actually touches on a key point that @ hera013 made - in the US, drinking can sometimes be a form of “rebellion” given our extremely high drinking age, and it’s important not to make a drunk friend think that you are acting as an older “adult”/parent but rather as a concerned friend/peer.

Pour revenir sur un point qu’a abordé Rémi, je pense que la plupart des étudiants français ont commencé à consommer de l’alcool en soirée à 15-16 ans donc ça fait déjà 5-6 ans que l’on côtoie des gens saouls (ou encore qu’il nous arrive de l’être). Ce que l’expérience m’a appris c’est que le plus important c’est de ne pas laisser une personne toute seule mais je ne pense pas que l’arrêter totalement de boire soit indispensable, la plupart du temps le corps finit par expulser l’excédent.

@jlampart je suis très étonné que vous semblez tous sensibilisé aux faites que quelqu’un puisse “take advantage” de quelqu’un ayant consommé beaucoup d’alcool. En France j’ai l’impression que ce n’est pas du tout le cas, on insiste juste sur le fait de ne pas conduire après avoir bu. De quels avantages pensez vous lorsque vous dites cela ?

At what point would you define someone to be “very drunk”? I interpreted that as “can no longer take care of themselves or make good decisions” but our interpretations of that phrase could lead to very different responses.

For example, Mathieu said that to stop drinking isn’t necessary, but by my definition the person in question is probably at their limit and should definitely stop drinking.

@hera013:
En France nous parlons régulièrement d’alcool de manière tout à fait banale. Il n’y a pas vraiment de tabou là dessus. Mon ancien professeur de mathématique m’a raconté une histoire lors d’une visite des Etats-unis avec sa famille. Il est allé au restaurant et a demandé du vin. Il a servi à son fils de 16 ans un demi verre pour l’occasion. La famille d’Américains qui se trouvaient à la table à côté ont dit que c’était un scandale et ont demandé à être changés de table.
Cela montre bien que l’alcool est bien plus pointé du doigt chez vous. En France, personne n’aurait réagit face à cette situation qui peut sembler vraiment banale.
Nous avons pas de véritable prévention “contre” l’alcool. On nous dit souvent “ne buvez pas à outrance” mais très rarement “ne buvez pas du tout”. Notre prévention ce limite à un usage modéré et responsable, ce que l’on fait depuis nos 15 - 16 ans comme le dit Mathieu.
Les adultes ne sont pas très regardants de l’âge légal non plus. Mon père me servait du vin à table quand j’en demandais avant mes 18 ans.
Je pense que c’est une question de culture avant tout. Personne ici ne pourrait envisager la prohibition par exemple.

Ce n’est pas vraiment une question d’être “rebelle” en revanche. Je pense que c’est plus comme partager une nouvelle expérience entre amis, se découvrir. On se cache de nos parents pour ne pas les inquiéter, c’est tout. On voit les adultes faire ça depuis tellement longtemps qu’on aimerait franchir le pas.

A quelle fréquence buvez-vous ? (Si vous avez peur que l’enseignant remarque votre réponse, mettez le nombre de jours dans la semaine sous la forme d’une équation à 89 inconnues ou bien comme la trace d’une matrice diagonalisable.)

@elemcy : je pense qu’on peut prendre de très mauvaises décisions en ayant bu mais je pense (j’ai pu le vérifier ce week end) que j’aurais plutôt tendance à surveiller cette personne d’un oeil pendant qu’il boit et le ramasser une fois qu’il est par terre, ça aurait peut être été mieux pour lui que je l’arrête avant mais c’est sa responsabilité de se gérer. De plus, vomir un peu ne peut lui faire que du bien, pour évacuer.
Je pense que de base tant qu’on ne boit pas trop vite le corps se gère et on ne risque pas grand chose. Ce week end on était dans un camping à 45 bien imbibés et on n’a eu que des soucis mineurs …

@Elemcy : pour moi, quelqu’un qui “boit trop” n’est pas forcément quelqu’un qui ne peut plus se gérer. Ca, je dirai plutôt quelqu’un qui a trop bu pour le coup. Si il se sent capable de boire autant, je lui fais confiance, surtout un ami. Jamais je contrôlerai la façon dont va boire un ami, chacun fait ce qu’il veut pour passer un bon moment. Après bien sûr, si je vois qu’il commence à se sentir mal, je commencerai à le surveiller. Chacun fait ce qu’il veut, tant qu’il ne se met pas en danger. Et aujourd’hui, je pense qu’on est tous à peu près capable de réagir face à quelqu’un qui ne se sent vraiment pas bien après avoir trop bu.

Rémi, that was a very good point. Back home, the minimum age for drinking alcohol is 18 years old, but people start drinking from slightly younger, very often under their parents’ supervision rather than hiding it from them. I have drunk myself in the past (less than 10 for sure), but not on a regular basis, and has always been under good control.

@Mathieu Tu le ramasses une fois à terre? Pour faire quoi après avec ? Nous aimerions tous savoir ce que tu fais une fois que tu a ramassé une personne inconsciente.

@anogues : tu veux pas savoir ce que je fais avec ;)

@Mathieu Nous savons tous ce que tu fais avec.

@Jean-Michel Durant Interesting…..so sexual abuse while drunk isn’t something that occurs too often in France? Why do you think that’s the case? Given all the attention focused towards such prevention here in the US, one would think being alone and drunk is a crying signal to predators to swoop in and cause harm, but that’s not the case in France? I mean, I’m sure it happens (it probably happens everywhere), but is it such a little concern (because it seldom happens) that you guys wouldn’t feel worried if your female friend was drunk and alone with some random guy at a party?

@Remi - what you said about drinking from an earlier age and having parents introduce to you alcohol is exactly what I expected, and I think that difference really explains a lot of differences between binge drinking / drinking alcohol in general in France and the US. The minimum drinking age in Canada is 18 or 19 (depending on the province) and from what I’ve heard there’s also much less alcohol abuse in Canada as well. I started having wine occasionally with dinner from pretty early - maybe around 16? - and when we’re in China at dinner parties, we drink Chinese liquor (Baijiu) or rice wine, which can get up to 120 proof. For someone that doesn’t like alcohol, my tolerance is pretty high. Usually I will have one or two drinks a week, but I usually have things like cider, wine, or beer - I don’t drink to get drunk, I just have it as a beverage when I’m unwinding on the weekends.

Once in a while I’ll have a cider when I’m frustrated with a project or spending many hours building something for my classes though. Gluing pieces of cardboard to make models can get really boring.

J’ai une question pour les américains, pourquoi selon vous, vous n’avez le droit à boire de l’alchool qu’à partir de l’âge de 21 ans et 21 exactement? Si c’est une question de maturité et d’après nos conversations précédentes, j’ai cru que 18 ans était l’âge de maturité et d’indépendance pour vous.

@hanine Although 18 is often considered to be the age of reaching adulthood and maturity, the laws in the United States have required the drinking age to be 21 for a long time. I think that this is based on of precedence more than anything since a person is considered an adult after 18 and that should include the responsibility of drinking.

The joke made above about what you’d do with an unconscious drunk person is actually a very real fear for most college-aged women. Sexual assault is a very serious issue and I’m surprised it doesn’t come up during your conversations about alcohol usage.

@hanine the drinking age in the US was historically 21, then moved to 18, and moved back to 21 in the 1980s in response to high levels of drunk driving incidents among drivers aged 18 - 20 (most of whom lived in states where the drinking age remained 21 and had driven to other states so that they could drink). As a result of the increase in drunk driving accidents, the government changed the drinking age back to 21.

@elemcy I agree that there seems to be a disconnect about the treatment of sexual assault between the two groups that I find very interesting, as it is such a huge and important issue here in the US.

@elemcy I agree and I was pretty concerned about that “joke” to be honest.
@Jean-Michel Durant Since alcohol lowers inhibition and one’s ability to defend one’s self, someone else can take something from them that the drunk person would not consent to when they are sober. This could result in sexual assault, but it could also involve stealing money or possessions. This is why I would step in this scenario to prevent a friend from getting hurt in some way.
I am suprised that you state that this is less of the case in France. Is it viewed as less of a concern or are these cases less prominent?

Les vols, abus sexuels etc… sont des sujets graves. Si ça ressort moins dans nos interventions, c’est que ça doit moins arriver chez nous que chez vous. Je n’ai aucun chiffre sous la main, mais je ne pense pas que tout le monde se fiche de ces sujets en France. On peut laisser ses amis boire comme ils veulent durant la soirée, mais garder un oeil sur eux pendant le reste de la soirée (surtout si on sort en ville/en boite etc…) pour s’assurer qu’ils ne leur arrivent pas de problème.

For the French students, since we’ve mentioned that some of the stigmas or dangers associated with alcohol in the US are typically sexual assault, drunk driving, or something to that extent, what are the stigmas or things you’re warned about when it comes to alcohol? Not necessarily the consumption of too much but just the negative connotations of alcohol.

I find interesting that given how much universities try to educate us about proper alcohol consumption, like AlcoholEdu, we in the United States seem to have a lot of responses about intervening if a friend is too drunk, and about knowing exactly what to do. However, I wonder, would we really intervene if we were put in such a situation? What we expect we would do is not often how we react in a given situation. I don’t know, what do you think?

Labradoodle, I think a lot of times what we expect we would do is not how we’d actually react, like you said. But in this case I think our responses were fairly accurate. Anytime I’ve been to a party where someone was too drunk there was always someone else taking care of them.

@elemcy
I agree. In my experience, people become caring “mothers” and “fathers” and start taking care of the drink person in question. It is a very interesting phenomenon.

*drunk person