In general, the MIT students think that individualism is a positive thing, while the students from ENSEIRB find individualism to be a negative thing. Maybe unification is more important for the ENSEIRB students, and they see individualism as a threat to this unification.
Is individualism always a bad thing? Do you think it is possible to have unification and individualism at the same time?

It does seem like each group sees individualism in completely different lights. I am curious, was learning that individualism is bad something that is a cultural identity? Or was it something you were taught at a young age?

The differences between the two groups are so striking that I wonder if we even have the same definition of individualism. It is hard to believe that an idea that has garnered so much praise and encouragement in the U. S. could be viewed in such negative light in other cultures. I am curious about the specific examples of individualism/individualistic actions that come to mind for each group.

Echoing the sentiments of Julia and Stephen, it does seem that individualism has a different connotation in France. The MIT students see it as a reasonable investment in one’s wellbeing and happiness. In French culture, the term may refer to an excessive investment in oneself, above the good and happiness of one’s society. Is it the case that we just define this term differently?

An additional note the observations of other students, I think it is intriguing that individualism is associated with being alone or lonely by the ENSEIRB students. This definitely adds to the negative connotation around this idea that other students have observed. I think perhaps this comes from a more acute awareness of the effects of individual actions on larger groups like our communities and society at large, but does individualism inherently mean your needs are above others? Perhaps MIT students say no and ENSEIRB students say yes.

Perhaps this difference in response is connected to the difference between equality and equity (at least in the English sense). France seems to value equity where people are provided more or less the same things, and therefore, great economic disparity, for example, is frowned upon. On the other hand, in the United States, people tend to value equality more where people are treated the same but they are free to be successful (or unsuccessful) as long as they are given the same opportunity. Thus people acknowledge other’s talent and ability leading to an emphasis in individualism. This may be oversimplifying the general view, but this is what I felt from looking at the responses and also hearing a little bit about the political ideologies in French society. I am interested in knowing what others think and also if this analysis is even remotely correct.

I Do think it is very interesting how drastically different the responses are. There is mentions of weather the word has a different interpretation or weather it is a cultural difference. I think this is a very interesting question. I think that is is probably a little of both because the ENSEIRB students seem to almost be describing”self-centered” although more alone than that. This would be almost a different word although if it is a similar word then the culture there must be much more group and unified orientated.

Je trouve ce sujet très intéressant. Je suis d’accord avec vous sur le fait que la différence de perception de l’individualisme par les élèves de l’ENSEIRB et ceux du MIT est très importante et intrigante. Vous percevez majoritairement cela comme quelque chose de positif et signe de réussite et nous comme quelque chose de négatif. Je suis absolument d’accord avec ton raisonnement Yoshihiro. En France, les gens confondent la signification du mot égalité et du mot équité. Alors que la devise nationale prône la notion d’égalité, une majorité souhaiterait que tout le monde soit au même niveau et voit d’un mauvais œil ceux qui ont plus qu’eux. Alors que vous, vous semblez privilégier l’égalité et le droit de laisser à chacun la possibilité de se distinguer des autres. Je pense d’ailleurs que c’est là toute la signification du rêve américain. Pour revenir à l’individualisme, la notion de réussite en tant qu’individu se vérifie souvent au travers de l’individualisme et je pense que c’est ce que vous mettez en avant. Et comme en France réussir mieux que les autres est souvent mal vu alors l’individualisme l’est aussi.

I find it really interesting your analysis, Damien, about the different reasons each culture has a different connotation of individualism. Bringing in the American Dream is adds an economic component to it that I had not considered before. I think for Americans though, at least how MIT students see it, is that individualism pertains to personality and character. Someone who “has individualism” is someone who is unique and special in their own way. This has been something that we have been taught is a desirable trait to make you stand out from the rest, not necessarily in an economic context. Do you see individualism in a strictly economic sense? As in one who strives to succeed financially for themselves only?

I find what Damien said about individualism in France is very fascinating, and I never considered thought. I personally have never connected individualism with someone having more or less than someone else, but that they are just different. I guess more of a lateral view than a vertical view if that makes sense, with no one above anyone else. This might just be an American view, given how it is very similar to the words on the MIT side above. Since there seems to be a strong desire equity in France, do you ever feel restricted or constrained when trying to express yourself in anyway?

Like Stephen and Michael, I found Damien’s perspective to be incredibly eye opening. I had previously assumed that we defined individualism differently, but now I can understand how individualism, by any definition, can be seen as incompatible with equality on a large scale. By focusing on what makes every person different, it is easy to venerate certain qualities in a manner that supports inequality. In American culture, which is quite competitive, it isn’t surprising that we encourage distinguishing traits. In French society, how do you prove yourself to employers, friends, etc? We often represent ourselves through our hobbies or accomplishments, but would this be seen as egoistic?

Je pense que l’individualisme à deux versants. D’un côté, c’est ce qui permet à l’individu de se différencier des autres d’individus. Pas forcément par les hobbies ou les accomplissements (comme disait Collin) mais pour dégager un temps et un espace suffisant pour l’individu pour se retrouve avec soi-même, seul avec ces pensées. C’est essentiel dans la construction psychique d’un individu. D’autre côté, un individualisme trop exacerbé mène à nier que certains de nos accomplissements ne dépendent pas de nous mais des autres ou tout simplement de la chance.

Pour répondre à ta question Stephen, non je ne vois pas l’individualisme uniquement d’un point de vue économique. Je partage ta définition de l’individualisme et c’est bien en ce sens là que j’y faisais référence dans mon précédent message. Je pense en effet que l’individualisme consiste, dans une certaine mesure, à se centrer sur soi-même afin de se construire et de s’épanouir. Cela nous amène, d’une certaine façon, à se distinguer et à être unique en tant qu’individu. Il se peut aussi que ça nous amène à nous distinguer économiquement parlant mais pas nécessairement.

Michael, oui en effet. J’ai connu de nombreuses personnes, qui voulant avancer dans leurs projets personnels et dans leurs vies, se sont vu mettre “des bâtons dans les roues” pour aucune raison valable mais juste par jalousie. Je pense que c’est très français. Qu’en est-il au Etats-Unis ?

Collin, je ne pense pas que l’on souhaite se démarquer de nos amis de manière explicite en France. C’est même, je pense, plutôt mal vu. On essaie plutôt de rester modeste. Je ne sais pas si ce que je dis est général mais en tout cas c’est comme ça que je vois les choses. Auprès des employeurs, il est dans nos mœurs et normal, en France, de se mettre en valeur et de se distinguer des autres afin de se faire embaucher. Est-ce la même chose chez vous ?