Bonjour,
Je suis étonné de voir que certain d’entre vous envisage la délation alors qu’aucun français ne considère cette possibilité. Bien que la tricherie ne soit pas honorable, la dénonciation est, pour beaucoup d’entre nous, un acte immoral. Pensez-vous que ce comportement se manifeste dans d’autres situations de votre vie quotidienne? Thomas

In my opinion, cheating on an exam is unacceptable. It disrespects the honesty and integrity of everyone’s work. At the end of the day, you’re lying to yourself and cheating yourself. You are the one who will suffer the most from the lack of knowledge and your dishonorable actions. To answer Thomas’s question about cheating in everyday life, the only kind-of acceptable form I can think of is cheating on games when playing with family members. When my family plays, everybody cheats, so in a way, it levels the playing field.

Amena, I agree that cheating on an exam is unacceptable and that if people cheat then they don’t take pride in their work that day. To answer Thomas’s question about telling on someone who’s cheating, there are probably two main camps: one, that it’s absolutely your duty as a good person to tell the teacher due to the reasons Amena posted, and second, put crudely, that “snitches get stitches” (this is a common American phrase that’s useful and rhymes! I encourage you to google it). I think most people wouldn’t tell on someone who’s cheating, but I think it’s chill if people do. After all, if someone makes the decision to cheat then they should have priced that risk in.

How common is cheating in France at a widespread, organized level? I’m curious because recently, there’s been a huge college cheating scandal in the US where quite a few rich parents paid organizations to fake their kids’ accomplishments for college admissions. For example, they’d pay these organizations to Photoshop their kid’s face onto a picture of an athlete and then get recruited for sports.

I was also wondering if cheating is common or not in schools in France and if it is considered very serious if it happens. In my experience, most teachers take cheating seriously (especially on exams/tests).

I agree with Emily that I do not think it is unfair to tell on someone who is cheating on an exam, since that person should be aware of the risk associated with cheating. While I do not think it is necessarily each student’s job to monitor others, I also think that there is an element of collective responsibility to maintain fairness in assessments. That being said, I think that perhaps my view is influenced by the way in which exams are administered at MIT. Many classes allow students to bring a crib sheet containing useful equations or other information, so imagining someone cheating in addition to that seems particularly surprising and unfair. Is this common in your classes?

Bonjour à tous!

Dans un premier temps, je pense que nous sommes tous d’accord pour affirmer que tricher n’apporte rien et démontre un profond manque de respect pour les autres en compétition. Nous ne faisons qu’enfoncer des portes ouvertes.

Amena, dans le cadre du jeu je ne suis pas sur la même longueur d’onde que toi. J’imagine que cela dépend du contexte mais la triche au sein des jeux et sports compétitifs (aux échecs ou compétitions sportives par exemple) peut tout autant nuire aux autres que dans le milieu scolaire, voir même plus encore car les conséquences sont directement visibles. Les implications de la triche dans le milieu scolaire sont en revanche plus grave sur le long terme.

Emily, à ma connaissance nous ne disposons pas en français d’une expression équivalente, mis à part le fait que le délateur est toujours désigner dépréciativement avec les mots balance et cafteur ce qui résume bien la mentalité française quant à cette attitude. Il me semble que dans l’histoire américaine, la délation fut pratiqué et encouragé à l’échelle de l’état. Est-ce que je fais erreur?

Isabelle et Emily, je ne suis pas certain que nos impression soient pertinentes pour désigner l’étendu de la triche dans nos pays respectifs. Néanmoins je n’ai pas l’impression qu’elle soit répandu dans les études supérieurs durant les examens présentiels a contrario des devoirs ou compte rendu à la maison (il nous a été reproché de reprendre des travaux des années précédentes :p). La triche est néanmoins vivement punie tout comme en Amérique. Dans le code pénal français c’est même un délit. Dans l’enseignement secondaire (lycée et collège), la triche me parait plus présente et moins sévèrement sanctionnée (ceci explique cela…). La sanction dépasse alors rarement la bulle (note nulle).

Autrement l’autorisation d’apporter une fiche aide mémoire est très rarement donnée en France.

Pour faire le lien avec l’actualité récente, je vous invite à lire le début de cet article pour que vous ressentiez comment la délation est perçue en France : https://www. lemonde.fr/societe/article/2020/04/10/avec-le-coronavirus-le-retour-des-corbeaux_603… . Bien qu’elle soit autorisée et même encouragée dans la loi dans certains domaines il me semble (pour des crimes ou des délits majeurs).

Bon vu qu’il faut donner l’exemple, je me permet de corriger quelques fautes outrageantes: le délateur est toujours désigné, la délation fut pratiquée et encouragée, qu’elle soit répandue.

It’s actually very interesting to see the difference between the responses on both sides. I agree with emily and Isabelle in saying that reporting someone cheating on a test is not unacceptable because that’s a risk taken when cheating in the first place. To answer Thomas’s question about denunciation in American history and culture, I think that most of that occurs publicly as a political strategy more than actually highlighting immorality. That’s not to say that people don’t question the immorality of it, but I think that it’s usually brought to the public’s attention for political reasons, especially in terms of elections.

Are there many cheating scandals in French politics?

The main difference between the responses from MIT and ENSEIRB students was that a few MIT students would talk directly to the cheater. As Thomas pointed out, this is also not a very honorable act. I believe it is not our responsibility to speak to a cheater. What do other people think? Should we be expected to say something to the cheater? To the professor? Or is it ok to just focus on our own exam?

Honestly, I would let that person be since at the end of the day, they are only hurting themselves. That begin said, I also feel that cheating in the United States especially at good schools is driven by competition more so than being lazy. I have met friends who went to competitive high schools where cheating was common but simply because students wanted to overachieve and stand out. Therefore, my following question is to Thomas: Do you feel that French schools promote competitive environments which make it inevitable for cheating to thrive? I certainly feel that way about most competitive schools in the United States.

I agree Solrac that possibly different atmospheres between schools may be the reason that cheating may occur. However, the atmospheres in regards to cheating may also be a difference here: Is it more acceptable to report a cheater at one school when compared to another? Some schools take the “Snitches get Stitches” to a completely different levels than others. For example: my high school saw people in senior year holding grudges against people who turned them in for cheating in ninth grade. Is it better to speak up or keep quiet and hope the cheater gets caught?

I think it’s interesting that denunciation is generally seen as immoral in France. In response to Paige, I agree that it’s fine to just focus on our own exam and not confront the cheater, but the question of responsibility reminds me of the bystander effect. Do you think our reactions might be different if the consequences were more severe?

Hello, everyone. I am very surprised as well to see the responses that were given from both sides. I guess I would like to point out two different scenarios which I would have take different actions. If the class was graded on a curve in which the grade cutoffs were determined by how the students perform, then I wouldn’t tolerate someone cheating on an exam because it causes the curve to be skewed and unrepresentative of the class’ true performance. Cheating in this case would negatively affect others, and I’m not a majority of the classes would not be pleased if they noticed someone was affecting their performance, which can affect larger outcomes. I’m not saying this is always the case, where cheating would definitely raise the cutoffs and negatively affect others, maybe cheating would hurt the cheater’s grade if they had just done the test themselves, but in most cases that people talk about, it’s the former situation.

Now if we look at the situation where the cheater’s cheating would not affect other classmates’ performances, such as a class with fixed grade cutoffs, then I can see where a lot of people would not say or do anything and let the cheater take the consequences him or herself. Usually cheating is a domino effect, as I see it, where it tends to encourage more cheating and less learning in the future, and there will be a time when the knowledge would have been useful had the cheater actually took the time to learn the material and not cut corners. So cheating really doesn’t turn out to benefit the person in the long run, when it really matters. In both situations, cheating is never moral nor looked proudly upon, but I usually take the action based off how it affects others, if it does, and let the person dig his or her own hole otherwise.

I completely agree with FourEast. In a good number of American colleges where you grade hangs on the performance of others in the class, cheating becomes very costly. I went to a school where you received ranking for each subject you took and I remembered falling short in a ranking one continuous assessment because nearly half of the class had cheated and done better. I think the fear of being looked as a traitor by people who are doing the wrong thing is understandable but ought not be the case. I’m actually surprised by Thomas comment because I saw more responses by ENSEIRB indicating they wouldn’t do anything about it and more MIT students saying they may privately tell their professors. I’m curious how the different grading systems in the countries may influence the cost of cheating(or not cheating) on other students performance.

I would not like to discuss the legality or illegality of such an action, but, if I were to see someone committing it (an action which, although it seems bold on the one hand, I fully agree is punishable), in those moments I wouldn’t react. The signs that could be made to the professor to point out the process of cheating, calling out the action, the punishment of the person who was cheating, the chaos that would be caused during the reaction, etc.; all of this would lead to an unnecessary waste of time and a loss of concentration of all the others present in the classroom.
For such a punishable act the responsibility is individual to the person and the organizer and supervisor of the examination, i. e. the professor present in the class. Thus, I believe that the action should be discussed between them, not in front of everyone else, and without anyone getting involved.

I find it interesting that on both sides very few people woud approach the cheater and help them understand that what they did was wrong, so they could reflect on their actions. I believe it is no good if the person is turned in to the professor, but they don’t learn their lesson and keep cheating in the future. Do you think simply telling the professor would help stop these actions of cheating? And is staying quiet the right thing to do in these situations?

I think this is a question of duty. Is it a student’s duty to report cheating by other students? In general, I think not. But this is entirely situation dependent. If it is a test in a college class, cheating does not really matter as others have said, because the cheater is only limiting his or her own learning. However, if it is a test of competency for a job that requires someone to be directly responsible for people’s lives, such as a pilot, a nurse, a soldier, a driver, or other similar job, then a student absolutely has a duty to report cheating because people’s lives hang in the balance. Also, for the US military, cheating is not tolerated and reporting cheating is explicitly stated as a duty, so if I were to be taking a test as a servicemember, I would absolutely report cheating.

Bonjour,

Je suis surpris comme vous des différences entre les réponses des 2 écoles, cela vient sûrement comme certains le suggéraient d’un environnement scolaire moins compétitif en France qu’aux US. Personnellement, je ne crois pas avoir déjà vu quelqu’un interpeller le professeur pour signaler quelqu’un en train de tricher, que ce soit pendant ou après l’examen. Si c’était le cas, je pense que la personne ayant dénoncé serait moins bien vue par les élèves que la personne ayant triché, et aurait une mauvaise réputation. Même cacher ses réponses de ses voisins lors des examens peut être parfois mal vu, au collège et lycée. De toute façon durant la quasi-totalité de la scolarité en France, la triche n’a pas de conséquence pour les autres car il n’y a pas de compétition, et pour ce qui est des concours aux grande écoles qu’une partie des élèves de l’Enseirb ont passés, je crois que très peu de personnes trichent.

Hello,
I agree with Guillaume that cheating could be influenced by your schooling environment and how high the pressure is there to get good grades. What I find interesting about his comment is that the person who reports a cheater or tries to prevent cheating is probably not looked at positively. Is it that it is not common for students to report others, whether they are friends or acquaintances? Does your social standing with other people in your school mostly depend on trust? What do you think could be the reasons for such a person to be seen badly by others, even though cheating is wrong?

Bonjour,

Je pense qu’il est mal vue de dénoncer en France car cela fait de nous des personnes en qui on ne peut pas faire confiance. Si il y avait une compétition, comme en sport, où qu’on serait dans des écoles séléctives où ce qui compte n’est pas la note en soi, mais notre note par rapport à celles des autres, je pense que ce serait beaucoup moins mal vu, car celui qui triche pourrait prendre une place que l’on mérite, on peut donc comprendre qu’une personne dénonce.

Mais la plupart du temps, il n’y a pas de compétition, aussi en dénonçant quelqu’un, on lui fait du tort, on ne vas pas se mentir, se faire engeuler par un professeur ou un parent est loin d’être agréable. De plus les matières dans lequelles les personnes trichent sont souvent des matières qui ne leur serviront à rien dans leur vie ou leur futur métier, mais dont il ont besoin pour l’obtention de leur diplôme.

Ainsi dénoncer ne fait que du tort au tricheur et il n’y a pas vraiment de bienfait.

Si vous surprenez quelqu’un qui triche, que vous savez que cela n’impactera pas le futur des autres élèves, que cette personne a besoin d’avoir une bonne note pour réussir à obtenir son diplôme, et que vous savez que la matière dans laquelle il triche ne lui sera pas utile pour son futur métier, le dénonceriez-vous encore ?

In response to adanquigny: If one must resort to cheating to get a good grade for something they are required to take to get a diploma, then did they deserve the diploma? If they are required to take this class and get a decent grade, there must be a reason why. Even if it won’t impact everyone else’s grade, it still says something about the student willing to cheat, more specifically something about their honesty and work ethic. To a degree, one could easily compare cheating to plagiarism: If someone has to write an essay for a class that won’t help them in their future job, should they be allowed to use someone else’s? The general consensus is no, since what they’re turning in isn’t their own work. Cheating on a test is the same: The work they’d turn in is not their own. While I’m not saying that reporting the cheater is good nor bad, I do find interesting the stark differences between the handling of cheating and plagiarism.

To respond to adanquingy, I think it’s not important why the student is cheating or what the implications are. Cheating is a dishonest act no matter why or what they are cheating on. Whether this requires intervention from a student is a different question, but regardless of the circumstances, cheating is cheating.

I found Guillaume’s point about hiding your answers from your neighbors being frowned upon interesting. How do children typically react to cheating in France? Are they more likely to report their peers?

I agree with what was said above regarding the evaluation of cheating as a punishable act, but I do not agree with the denunciation to the professor or anywhere being the right thing to do. To answer the question of adanquigny, I would say that, whatever the circumstances, it is not a question of whether his action violates my grade or that of the other peers. I think that denunciation morally lowers someone in the eyes of the others, and the person who has committed the act of cheating might receive a severe form of punishment because of the act being made public. For such a situation, I believe that no one would feel good to be the one causing it. I would like to mention as well a similar situation in the movie “Scent of a Woman”, in which Charlie is in a dilemma, whether to become a “snitch” and tell on his classmates for something wrong they had done, or remain silent as the case is solved by the others. We can see in that movie that Charlie decides not to tell on them, even when presented to a “reward” in case he did that, and this decision is applauded by the whole crowd. The one who tells on them, on the contrary, is seen with contempt by everyone.

Bonjour !

Pour te répondre Shelly, je ne faisais pas un jugement moral sur la dénonciation mais je faisais remarquer comment elle était globalement jugée et tout particulièrement en ce moment avec le confinement. La délation est souvent motivée par un intérêt personnel, de l’animosité et du ressentiment. C’est pour cela que je considère que ce n’est pas acceptable de dénoncer directement un tricheur car dans les faits il se fait déjà du mal tout seul. Autrement les faits de triche en France sont peu communs dans les médias même si tous les ans il y en a.

Paige, je suis d’accord avec toi pour dire que c’est bien plus honorable d’en discuter directement avec le tricheur. Peut-être qu’en parler au professeur pourrait être une sorte de dernier recours dans l’hypothèse où sa triche à une directe influence sur nous ? Il s’agirait donc d’établir une limite à la délation ce qui est difficile…

Solrac, connais-tu le fonctionnement des classes préparatoires en France ? De mon expérience en prépa, bien que l’esprit de compétition soit présent en arrière-plan, je n’ai jamais été témoins de triche car nous avions pour beaucoup la maturité pour comprendre que la triche n’était pas une solution viable pour progresser et que cela ne nous apportait rien pour obtenir une bonne école d’ingénieur ensuite. La sélection en France ce produit aux concours et cela serait le seul moment intéressant pour tricher mais les risques sont trop importants pour en valoir la peine. Tu penses que la compétitivité motive la triche aux US ?

Fjonap, je suis d’accord avec toi pour dire que la confrontation avec le tricheur doit se faire en aparté avec le professeur pour éviter que cela se transforme en jugement populaire et que cela pénalise indirectement tout le monde.

Je pense que tu pointes, Gianna, un point intéressant en parlant des relations que nous avons avec le tricheur. Comme je le disais plus haut la délation peut être motivé par l’animosité ou le ressentiment ce qui rend l’acte peut égalitaire voir même diffamatoire dans certains cas. D’où l’intérêt de restreindre la délation aux situations qui nous concernent directement afin d’éviter des vengeances personnelles.