- 07:01pm
Oct 18, 2001

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Il est interessant de voir la différence entre les étudiants americains et les étudiants français. Je ne sais pas si c'est hypocrite mais aucun étudiant français n'a mentionné qu'il dénoncerait celui qui triche. Il est vrai qu'au cours de ma scolarité, j'ai vu beaucoup d'élèves tricher et personne ne les a jamais dénoncés. On avait plutôt une certaine tendance à s'entraider lorsque c'étaient des tests faits en cours. Pour un concours c'est evidemment différent. En général on n'aide pas son voisin sauf si c'est un bon copain. Mais même pour un concours, on ne dénoncera pas son voisin.

- 03:42am Oct
22, 2001

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Je trouve que les différences sont encore plus marquées que ne le dit Capucine : non seulement aucun Français ne dit vouloir dénoncer, mais en plus certains proposent même d'aider, alors que cela semble impensable aux etats-Unis ! Qu'en est-il vraiment ? Y a-t-il un esprit de compétition comme il peut exister dans certaines grandes écoles chez nous ?

- 03:51am Oct 22,
2001

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Au risque de paraitre malhonnete, je suis étonné par tant de réponses negatives. Est-ce que ces personnes n'ont JAMAIS triché ou aidé un de leur ami en difficulté au cours de tous leurs examens, DS, tests et autres (code pour le permis...). Si oui, sincerement bravo :) je ne pensais pas que c'était possible. Pour les autres je me demande qui a le plus de problemes avec sa conscience: ceux qui trichent ouvertement ou ceux qui les critiquent en ayant fait pareil à moment donné???

- 07:14pm Oct
22, 2001

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I was also very surprised with the number of french students that said they
would help a student who was trying to cheat on an exam. Last year, I spoke
with a few international students here at MIT and I remember them all saying
that cheating is a lot more prominent where they come from then it is here in
the states.

I'm just curious - what is the punishment if a professor catches one of the students cheating on an exam? I think that at MIT (not 100% sure) the punishment would range anywhere from getting a zero on the exam, to getting a zero in that course, to possible going in front of some board of Deans. I don't think that a student would get expelled for cheating if it was the first time, yet I might be wrong, I don't know. But clearly these consequences are still serious. This is not to say that students at MIT don't cheat, but they seem to cheat more on homework assignments than on exams. Students commonly copy homework from each other, is this also the case in France?

I just couldn't imagine how you could "help" someone else who is cheating on an exam. Do you talk with them? or just slide your paper closer so they can see your answers? We have professors walking up and down the aisle during exams, and they would certainly catch you if you started talking with your friend during the exam. Also many of my exams at MIT are in an essay format, and clearly that would be impossible to copy from your neighbor.

- 01:54pm Oct
23, 2001

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It seems to me that cheating must be much more common in France than here, because of the responses I've read "Il est vrai qu'au cours de ma scolarité, j'ai vu beaucoup d'élèves tricher" and "Est-ce que ces personnes n'ont JAMAIS triché ou aidé un de leur ami en difficulté au cours de tous leurs examens, DS, tests et autres (code pour le permis...). Si oui, sincerement bravo :) je ne pensais pas que c'était possible." Certainly, cheating occurs in the US, especially on homework and take-home exams, but in my entire career--kindergarten to grad school--I have seen maybe 2-3 incidents of cheating on exams. Is cheating really as universal in France as it seems from these comments? Maybe I am naive, but it doesn't seem nearly that common here.

It seems like most of the American responses are fairly judgemental. I wonder if that is because many of our classes are graded on a curve, so that if someone else's grade improves, ours can go down even if we perform exactly the same. That makes cheating a much more personal issue of fairness for us. How are exams graded in France? Do you have a fixed percentage of high and low marks, or can everyone get a good grade if everyone does well?

- 06:14pm
Oct 24, 2001

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I'd like to address the differences between the American & French students who condone cheating. A few American responses struck me as pretty selfish, like the one that went something like, "If they're not cheating off me, I ignore it. Exam time is precious." I guess that, on top of questioning that person's motives, I just wonder about the importance of exams in general at MIT as compared to at INT. Are they more frequent, worth a smaller percentage of your grades, or just not a big deal in general? And do you find that accepting cheating on exams has greater moral implications, or is it really just a small matter to INT students?

- 11:08pm Oct
24, 2001

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In my opinion, I find reporting cheating to the teacher to be a bit childish. It is the sort of thing you might do when you're young in primary school, where you moan to the teacher exclaiming "but look s/he's cheating!"

The way I see it, each person is free to do what s/he wants, and you shouldn't interfere with that. If s/he wants to cheat, that's fine. If s/he doesn't, that's fine as well. It is his life and his choices. I have no say.

In fact this is the way life works. Out there, there are many businesses whose actions are less than ethical. However, there is nothing for one as an individual to do. As an individual you are only able to decide whether or not YOU will do it. Let the others do what they will.

- 03:58am Oct
25, 2001

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Hmm... I think I don't agree with most of the people who posted in this forum.
Cheating for me is not only something that has to do with the person that is
cheating and their professor, but I think it concerns and effects every member
of society. If people are allowed to cheat on an exam they will learn that merit
is not as important as being astute. Therefore if I know someone is cheating
I will definitely report him/her, whether this has to do with a small test or
a senior thesis. How would you feel knowing that your professor got his degree
copying on his exams? Does this explain my point of view?

- 01:16pm Oct
28, 2001

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The different american and french response is interesting. I think the stronger American reaction flows from a peculiarly american characteristic, perhaps drawn from Anglo-Saxon roots. This is that they always have to take a moral position, they see things in black and white, good and evil, and are shocked by any deviant behavior. Rules are there to be followed, sometimes even without thinking. this morality obsession is sometimes good and makes them a good people, but sometimes, this also leads to moral justification after the fact. I think I am diverging from the issue here, but I think that Americans do tend to take more moral positions than others. This is not only my experience but also the ones of other international students here. What do the French think on this? Do they have the same concept of good and evil, black and white as can be seen in the Hollywood movies?

- 12:29am Nov
1, 2001

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From speaking to international students and faculty, I have also learned that
cheating is much more prevalent in countries other than the U.S. I am not shocked
that quite a few French students said that they would help the cheater. How
is that any worse than an American student saying that they would help the cheater
only if it was his or her friend? What I am surprised about is the loyalty that
American students have towards their professors and authority in general. Could
it really be that American students are so much more competitive than French
students that they are willing to do anything to make themselves look better
in the eyes of their professor, even if that means being a "tattletale?"

- 03:46am Nov
5, 2001

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Je suis tout à fait d'accord avec Gerardo : c'est la vie de la personne concernée et en aucun cas une "affaire d'état" !
Quant à savoir si beaucoup de gens trichent là c'est un gros problème (si c'est bien fait, ça se voit pas !). Pour ma part, je sais qu'il y a eu pas mal de triche dans ma classe jusqu'au lycée où ça a disparu progressivement (à moins que les techniques se soient améliorées ...), mais ça existe toujours et je pense que ça existera toujours !

- 03:55am Nov
5, 2001

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Ce n'est pas qu'en France on soit particulièrement tricheur, c'est juste qu'il est évidemment trés souvent plus mal vu dedénoncer ces camarades de classe que de tricher (en tout cas auprès des élèves et c'est normal)Le fait de "copier" ses devoirs sur quelqu'un d'autre est aussi assez répendu mais c'est pas franchement grave car à ça ne pénalise personne ...Par contre aider qqn qui triche pendant un examen c'est possible j'ai dejà assisté à ce genre de scenes de nombreuses fois ,cela dit ça peut exposer les gens qui aident les autres à des problèmes.

- 08:01am
Nov 5, 2001

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En fait, je pense que les élèves s'aident beaucoup lorsqu'il s'agit de tests sans grande importance, dans le cadre d'un contrôle continu par exemple. Par contre lorsqu'il s'agit d'un concours où le rang à l'examen est primordial, les élèves s'aident beaucoup moins. Tout dépend de l'enjeu. Au collège ou au lycée, tricher est très fréquent mais lorsqu'on arrive en études supérieures, le phénomène devient moins important.

- 08:24am Nov
5, 2001

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Salut Sarah;
Il est vrai qu'on triche pas mal en france mais uniquement pour les controles ou les devoirs qui ne sont pas des concours ou des examens. Je n'ai vu personne tricher pour le bac ( quoique que j'ai entendu certaines personnes dire qu'elles avaient sorti une pompe d'histoire geo aux toilettes) et encore moins pour les concours. De toute facon, il y a beaucoup de matieres ou c'est difficile de tricher, je pense par exemple a la philosophie .
Cela dit, je pense que c'est un peu la meme chose aux etats unis; peut etre n'a tu pas bien remarque les personnes qui trichent car elles peuvent etre parfois tres dicretes et font preuves de beaucoup d'ingeniosité.

- 08:28am Nov
5, 2001

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Je pense comme Capucine que les élèves trichent nettement moins et s'entraident surtout moins lorsque l'enjeu est plus important.
J'ai une question à poser aux étudiants de MIT à ce sujet: une prof d'anglais m'a expliqué l'année dernière qu'aux Etats-Unis, il n'y a pas de carte d'identité et que aucune vérification d'identité n'est faite lors des examens. Ainsi, n'importe qui peut se présenter à votre place. Cela paraît impensable en France! Est-ce vrai?

- 03:23pm Nov
8, 2001

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Marine,

That is often true for exams given for a college or high school class, including final exams. However, for national standardized exam, such as the SAT (college entrance exam), I had to present a form of identification.

Several colleges in the united States have their students on an honor system. I'm not familiar with the rules of such an honor system becasue MIT does not currently have one. However, schools with honor codes do not tolerate cheating and severe consequences are taken when cheating occurs.