by lindathemoon, March 7, 2014, 2:17 PM
It seems that on both sides politeness, obedience and respect to their parents, and patience are important factors of being a “well behaved” kid. It is interesting that Americans value curiosity while French people think a well-behaved kid “ne veut pas dire grand chose”. I think the Americans’ attitude may lead to that Americans have a lot of creativity when they grow up, while French attitude implies they are more reserved. How important do French people think of curiosity and creativity?

by jbrown138, March 10, 2014 , 2:11 AM
I am going to politely disagree with what lindathemoon speculated; I do not believe that Americans’ attitudes lead to increased creativity. Most of the phrases on he American side describe actions. “A child will obey their parents. A child will do their homework. A child will go to bed on time. A child will enjoy exploring.” On the French side, conversely, personality traits are emphasized: “Un enfant est poli. Un enfant est curieux. Un enfant est gentil et soigneux.” It is a subtle difference but an extremely important one. Whereas the French side appears to fostering the growth of an individual who genuinely *is* these amicable traits, the American side merely proves that we try to instill values within our children by external means; that is, we value the immediate by products of their alleged values (such as, going to bed on time, being obedient, shows respect. etc), yet there is little mention to a child being respectful, being curious, or being happy. Think about it. The difference between “A child should listen to his/her parents.” and “A child should be respectful.” is a very subtle but notable and principle divide.
What I also found very intriguing was how the French side is also concerned with the future success of the child whereas the American side is obsessed with only the interim childhood of the kid. Does anyone else surmise that perhaps in France the importance of a good education (or simply general personal fulfillment and success) is stressed earlier in French kids’ lives than in Americans’?

by lindathemoon, March 10, 2014 , 11:37 AM
@jbrown
I do agree that the most valued traits on the American side are obedience, respect, and politeness, and this is quite similar to the French side, which I said in my previous comment. What I pointed out about curiosity was a difference I think between the American and French people.
Regarding your observation on the “future” part, is it possible that the definition of “well-behaved” is different from “bien-élevé”? I think the French word is more like “well raised”, thus the future becomes an important standard.

by jbrown138, March 11, 2014, 1:12 PM
That’s a really good point that you make – in regards to the “well-raised” vs. “well behaved” which may have caused some of he more interesting discrepancies. I suppose, I would like to ask the French students, then, how this clarification might have affected their answers one way or another?

by jraynal, March 11, 2014, 2:43 PM
C’est effectivement une bonne question. Je pense que nous confondons les termes “bien élevé” et “bien éduqué”. Le premier insiste plus sur le futur d’un enfant, ou sur un bilan de son enfance. Alors que le second concerne le comportement d’un enfant. La confusion entre les deux est aisée et je pense que la plupart d’entre nous a répondu en pensant au second. Maintenant, je ne pense pas que l’éducation “française” conduise à plus de retenue. Ce n’est que l’imposition d’un comportement public en compagnie d’étrangers ou d’adultes. Maintenant il est possible que les français manquent de curiosité et de créativité de manière plus générale mais c’est plus culturel.

by wandujar, March 11, 2014, 3:25 PM
Je suis d’accord avec toi @jraynal, il faut bien faire la distinction. Un enfant bien élevé est un enfant qui est prêt à s’épanouir par lui-même. Il ne faut pas qu’il se restreigne uniquement à son éducation, sinon sa vie consisterait juste à faire ce qu’on lui dit, c’est justement les termes qu’on retrouve le plus avec notamment la notion d’obéissance. Pensez-vous que l’éducation est vraiment similaire aux Etats-Unis et en France ? A quel âge avez-vous pu sortir seul le soir en centre-ville par exemple ?

by ymentagui, March 11, 2014, 3:41 PM
Des deux cotés un enfant qui est bien élevé est celui qui est poli, obéi ses parents et dit merci lorsqu’on lui offre quelque chose. Cependant la bonne éducation ne consiste pas toujours à se résigner et faire ce qu’on lui dit et répliquer merci à chaque fois, par contre une bonne éducation est celle qui forme la personnalité de l’enfant pour qu’il puisse affronter la vie dans le future, bien sûr sans négliger le coté de la politesse, parce que l’éducation vise en principe la perfection de la personne.

by xmaillard, March 11, 2014, 3:41 PM
@jbrown138 @jraynal
Je pense qu’un enfant est “élevé” par ses parents ou tuteurs, mais ils ne sont pas nécessairement responsables de son “éducation”. Si les parents sont nécessaires pour “élever” un enfant, il me semble que leur rôle est différent vis-à-vis de l’éducation de leur enfant. Un enfant “bien élevé” comprendre l’utilité d’être “bien éduqué” par lui même. On inculque à l’enfant un certain nombre de concepts, mais il n’est pas nécessaire dans cette démarche de lui apprendre ce qu’il verra plus tard à l’école.

“then, how this clarification might have affected their answers one way or another?” (fromjbrown138)
Je pense que “éduquer” et “élever” son complémentaire, car certaines notions ne peuvent pas se voir dans un cercle restreint. Les parents nous élèvent, nous apprennes la politesse, etc, mais certains concepts sont inhérents à la société, et sont vus pour la première fois quand on cotoie d’autre individus, distincts de nos proches, par exemple : lever la main à l’école pour parler. “Éduquer” ajoute également l’idée de formation, d’apprentissage, dont les bases sont plus compliquées à acquérir pour l’enfant (capacité intellectuelle).

by jbrown138, March 12, 2014,  8:36 PM
Thanks for all your responses! It seems like we both have essentially the same notions for how a good child ought to behave; this was merely muddled by a translation issue. Odd how that happens sometimes! In response to wandujar, the first time kids are usually allowed to go out on their own (say, get dropped off at a movie theatre to watch a movie by themselves and get a light dinner beforehand or something) is probably around 14 (the beginning of high school or end of middle school). Almost definitely no earlier than 12. This is probably more a result of the sort of society we live in – it’s not that some 11, 12, and 13 year olds cannot be trusted on their own so much as parents being protective of their children at younger ages. How about in France -what’s the rough age for going out on your own with friends? I still think it’s interesting that the French focus on the future is still a huge part of of having and raising a good kid. I don’t think would really come up on the American side. It’s definitely something thought about – but definitely not something that would immediately come to mind in regards to “most parents and kids.”

by dengxinyue0420, March 13, 2014, 7:41 AM
The comments above are really interesting. Both sides mention polite and respect, but French mentions polite more than Americans. It’s interesting that most Americans think obey or listen to their parents is the sign of well-behaved children, but on French side, they only mention respect parents not obey them. Maybe the relationship between parents and children is little different in these two countries. I think the age that you can go to town alone is depending on families, but I agree that maybe no less than 12.

by lindathemoon, March 13, 2014, 2:18 PM
Thanks for all the discussions! I just want to add another point that maybe the difference in referring to a good kid as “well-behaved” and “bien-élevé” is itself the difference in American and French cultures, in that they kind of represent how people determine whether child is a “good kid” or not.

by jraynal, March 13, 2014, 9:49 PM
@jbrown Je ne suis pas de ta question mais je répondrais ceci: cela dépend principalement des parents. Moi par exemple, j’ai été très autonome très jeune car je viens d’un petit village de campagne tranquille. Devant mon appartement à Bordeaux, des enfants très jeunes (entre 6 ans et 11 ans) jouent sans aucune surveillance. Je pense donc qu’en France, l’age de sortie varie selon trois facteurs essentiels: la sécurité du lieu de vie, la maturité des enfants et la confiance des parents. J’espère que ma réponse englobe une partie de celle que tu attends.